Scoundrel is amazing and feels great. Both in PvP and PvE. The nerf doesn't make it useless, it puts it more in line with what other classes can do.
This "feedback" is people whining their class isn't top meta anymore, and is anything but constructive.
Speaking of meta, devs overdid the fury buffs. Bit too strong now. Just like beast nerfs were a bit too much before, only in the other direction.
Since when has Scoundrel ever been top meta in bashing? I'm genuinely confused.
Scoundrel was probably 2nd only behind beast for like the first week, before everyone got to 50+ and before a lot of areas got tuned. It's probably middle of the pack now, if only barely above Fury.
My most optimal bashing rotation kills in 7/8 bullets and one fling. That's 17.5/20 seconds taking into account balance recovery, i.e., after that time, I can move around and do something new. The nerf made it less likely that I get the 7 bullet kill, but I still do get it every so often. I have maxed regen and lifeforce, and have wetwiring prios set to health/systems/afflictions. Generally, I need to stim still after every fight because I don't stim in the middle of it, which adds another 2.5. Every 3-4 kills, I use a wetwiring mend.
So summary is:
Base: 17.5/20 Healing: 20/22.5 Healing+: 22/24.5
I think you also need to note your MIL and the approximate MIL of what you're hunting and/or area & name of mob. As those factors would introduce a ton of outcome variance.
Something something privilege is hard to feel until you've lost it something something full stop.
Edit: Was the BEAST nerf ACTUALLY that bad? Are you sure the fall just doesn't feel higher from #1?
It put Beast bashing at the slowest with 21s ttk.
It also put Beast PvP a bit behind because we can no longer rely on good damage to make up for crappy subsys/affs output, while still having the hardest instakill req out of all the classes.
Also remember there were auxiliary changes such as the health formula changing and the average player level being much higher now than it was a month ago. I stand by what I said before the Beast nerfs, which is that the damage meta will be less and less strong as more people get level 75, even without any damage nerfs.
The damage isn't the issue. The getting hit like a truck is an issue. At least it is for me. When you get down to 10% health off a single mob in your bracket that slows things down substantially.
So I'm 53 and on Anemoi I probed an eagle. about Equal strength to me. I ambush, rapidfire, crack, crack, fling ripper. I kill the eagle with maybe 50 health left? I'm autoqueing. I also have victoryrush. The only thing I can think that I don't have is shrapnel. I don't have enough lessons for the shrapnel skill yet.
Yeah, Anemoi isn't the best of places to hunt. I am almost to level 60 and I have pretty much stuck with hunting on the Delta Deck the entire 50-60 levels.
I have shrapnel and while it does help, the two aggro mobs that like to wonder in at all times are what gets you killed.
You should be using weakening, it gives the bleeding effect. Though it doesn't show to much till you can start flinging shrapnel melters. Then the bleeds will stack up nicely.
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called
Scatterhome after what everybody does at
the end of the night when it's time for
someone to pay the bar tab."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my
calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what
my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds
up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
Are people not healing in combat as well? I've been bashing (75 now, but been like this since about 65) at around 20 or lower TTK even when healing as soon as I am below 80% and have balance to heal. I also have regen decently invested and have ww priorities set to health, afflictions, systems. I usually leave combat somewhere around 90% health.
I heal at 75% I do believe. But I hear a lot of Scoundrels don't heal till the mob is dead.
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called
Scatterhome after what everybody does at
the end of the night when it's time for
someone to pay the bar tab."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my
calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what
my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds
up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
On a different note, perhaps an odd one, I'd like it if incite were changed to slow your target down as they tried to chase you from room to room (With a heavy cooldown) instead of getting mobs to attack the target.. Scoundrels have a lot of techniques that enable us to fight via use of traps (Tripwire, conceal, hide) but it's kind of hard to set up traps while people are in the room, and things like tripwires aren't targeted, so it makes it hard to use it for anything other than maybe arena combat and griefing.
I don't PvP much, so maybe I'm misunderstanding how they're meant to be used, but I like the idea of setting up a room full of traps and setting people up for the suckerpunch, literally and metaphorically.
Are people not healing in combat as well? I've been bashing (75 now, but been like this since about 65) at around 20 or lower TTK even when healing as soon as I am below 80% and have balance to heal. I also have regen decently invested and have ww priorities set to health, afflictions, systems. I usually leave combat somewhere around 90% health.
I don't heal until the mob is dead unless I'm in some sort of danger of dieing.
As a general rule, thats a substandard way of bashing, since it'll mean you'll have to stop once the mob is dead to catch up on healing instead of being able to move faster to your next target.
As a general rule, thats a substandard way of bashing, since it'll mean you'll have to stop once the mob is dead to catch up on healing instead of being able to move faster to your next target.
On the other hand, by spending time healing instead of killing faster, you take more total damage per fight and therefore have to heal more damage before moving to the next target.
If that doesn't make sense - sometimes I stop attacking to stim, resume attacking and find afterwards that if I had not stimmed in the middle I would have taken one less hit from the mob before it died.
It is quite literally dependent on the area, target and your current gear/stats. Any time I'm in a new area, or pick up a new weapon maybe, I inspect the timing on the fights and work out whether I need to change any of the thresholds.
So, just a few more numbers for people who like that thing to crunch.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr; Kill time is now 16.5/19 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
So, just a few more numbers for people who like that thing to crunch.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr; Kill time is now 16/18.5 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
I forgot to mention it because its timing is the same as crackshot. Replace one of the crackshots with ambush.
I also went out and tried messing around with 300 Aim because why not, and the increase in damage was actually really noticeable. I just swore off rapidshot almost entirely and just used ambush/crackshot and I've managed to get consistent 6 bullet kills. However, that's only when I start with 2 or less bullets, because shrapnel damage needs time to proc, which it doesn't get when I spend more than half my time shooting. I'm also killing faster than eject cooldown ends, so the rotation usually ends up being 2 mobs at 6 bullets, 1 mob at 7 bullets, repeat.
Tldr; Kill time is now sometimes 15.5/18 at 300 Aim. Kill time is now sometimes 16.5/19 at 300 Aim. You save 0.66 seconds over 3 kills.
Comments
RIP BEAST privilege.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
Inb4 Prugita/Ixsei re-tuning.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
It also put Beast PvP a bit behind because we can no longer rely on good damage to make up for crappy subsys/affs output, while still having the hardest instakill req out of all the classes.
Also remember there were auxiliary changes such as the health formula changing and the average player level being much higher now than it was a month ago. I stand by what I said before the Beast nerfs, which is that the damage meta will be less and less strong as more people get level 75, even without any damage nerfs.
So I'm 53 and on Anemoi I probed an eagle. about Equal strength to me. I ambush, rapidfire, crack, crack, fling ripper. I kill the eagle with maybe 50 health left? I'm autoqueing. I also have victoryrush. The only thing I can think that I don't have is shrapnel. I don't have enough lessons for the shrapnel skill yet.
Also, side question, What ammo should I be using?
I have shrapnel and while it does help, the two aggro mobs that like to wonder in at all times are what gets you killed.
You should be using weakening, it gives the bleeding effect. Though it doesn't show to much till you can start flinging shrapnel melters. Then the bleeds will stack up nicely.
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
- Ilyos (August 2019)
If that doesn't make sense - sometimes I stop attacking to stim, resume attacking and find afterwards that if I had not stimmed in the middle I would have taken one less hit from the mob before it died.
It is quite literally dependent on the area, target and your current gear/stats. Any time I'm in a new area, or pick up a new weapon maybe, I inspect the timing on the fights and work out whether I need to change any of the thresholds.
I definitely woudnt recommend the strategy in areas with aggressives, at the very least.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr;
Kill time is now 16.5/19 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
I also went out and tried messing around with 300 Aim because why not, and the increase in damage was actually really noticeable. I just swore off rapidshot almost entirely and just used ambush/crackshot and I've managed to get consistent 6 bullet kills. However, that's only when I start with 2 or less bullets, because shrapnel damage needs time to proc, which it doesn't get when I spend more than half my time shooting. I'm also killing faster than eject cooldown ends, so the rotation usually ends up being 2 mobs at 6 bullets, 1 mob at 7 bullets, repeat.
Tldr;
Kill time is now sometimes 15.5/18 at 300 Aim.
Kill time is now sometimes 16.5/19 at 300 Aim.
You save 0.66 seconds over 3 kills.
- Ilyos (August 2019)