The damage isn't the issue. The getting hit like a truck is an issue. At least it is for me. When you get down to 10% health off a single mob in your bracket that slows things down substantially.
So I'm 53 and on Anemoi I probed an eagle. about Equal strength to me. I ambush, rapidfire, crack, crack, fling ripper. I kill the eagle with maybe 50 health left? I'm autoqueing. I also have victoryrush. The only thing I can think that I don't have is shrapnel. I don't have enough lessons for the shrapnel skill yet.
Yeah, Anemoi isn't the best of places to hunt. I am almost to level 60 and I have pretty much stuck with hunting on the Delta Deck the entire 50-60 levels.
I have shrapnel and while it does help, the two aggro mobs that like to wonder in at all times are what gets you killed.
You should be using weakening, it gives the bleeding effect. Though it doesn't show to much till you can start flinging shrapnel melters. Then the bleeds will stack up nicely.
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called
Scatterhome after what everybody does at
the end of the night when it's time for
someone to pay the bar tab."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my
calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what
my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds
up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
Are people not healing in combat as well? I've been bashing (75 now, but been like this since about 65) at around 20 or lower TTK even when healing as soon as I am below 80% and have balance to heal. I also have regen decently invested and have ww priorities set to health, afflictions, systems. I usually leave combat somewhere around 90% health.
I heal at 75% I do believe. But I hear a lot of Scoundrels don't heal till the mob is dead.
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called
Scatterhome after what everybody does at
the end of the night when it's time for
someone to pay the bar tab."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my
calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what
my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds
up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
On a different note, perhaps an odd one, I'd like it if incite were changed to slow your target down as they tried to chase you from room to room (With a heavy cooldown) instead of getting mobs to attack the target.. Scoundrels have a lot of techniques that enable us to fight via use of traps (Tripwire, conceal, hide) but it's kind of hard to set up traps while people are in the room, and things like tripwires aren't targeted, so it makes it hard to use it for anything other than maybe arena combat and griefing.
I don't PvP much, so maybe I'm misunderstanding how they're meant to be used, but I like the idea of setting up a room full of traps and setting people up for the suckerpunch, literally and metaphorically.
Are people not healing in combat as well? I've been bashing (75 now, but been like this since about 65) at around 20 or lower TTK even when healing as soon as I am below 80% and have balance to heal. I also have regen decently invested and have ww priorities set to health, afflictions, systems. I usually leave combat somewhere around 90% health.
I don't heal until the mob is dead unless I'm in some sort of danger of dieing.
As a general rule, thats a substandard way of bashing, since it'll mean you'll have to stop once the mob is dead to catch up on healing instead of being able to move faster to your next target.
As a general rule, thats a substandard way of bashing, since it'll mean you'll have to stop once the mob is dead to catch up on healing instead of being able to move faster to your next target.
On the other hand, by spending time healing instead of killing faster, you take more total damage per fight and therefore have to heal more damage before moving to the next target.
If that doesn't make sense - sometimes I stop attacking to stim, resume attacking and find afterwards that if I had not stimmed in the middle I would have taken one less hit from the mob before it died.
It is quite literally dependent on the area, target and your current gear/stats. Any time I'm in a new area, or pick up a new weapon maybe, I inspect the timing on the fights and work out whether I need to change any of the thresholds.
So, just a few more numbers for people who like that thing to crunch.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr; Kill time is now 16.5/19 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
So, just a few more numbers for people who like that thing to crunch.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr; Kill time is now 16/18.5 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
I forgot to mention it because its timing is the same as crackshot. Replace one of the crackshots with ambush.
I also went out and tried messing around with 300 Aim because why not, and the increase in damage was actually really noticeable. I just swore off rapidshot almost entirely and just used ambush/crackshot and I've managed to get consistent 6 bullet kills. However, that's only when I start with 2 or less bullets, because shrapnel damage needs time to proc, which it doesn't get when I spend more than half my time shooting. I'm also killing faster than eject cooldown ends, so the rotation usually ends up being 2 mobs at 6 bullets, 1 mob at 7 bullets, repeat.
Tldr; Kill time is now sometimes 15.5/18 at 300 Aim. Kill time is now sometimes 16.5/19 at 300 Aim. You save 0.66 seconds over 3 kills.
Some thoughts on the class and specific skills beyond just bashing timing numbers (as fun as those were to compile):
I don't like how with all the cool subsystems in place, bashing has devolved from being an interactive experience where different abilities had their purpose to just 'dor crackshot'. This could be a symptom of how mobs are designed, and not a scoundrel issue. For example, if different mobs had different wetwiring priorities, I imagine we might see more varied and interesting bashing.
A lot of the Guile punchy abilities are still kind of worthless.
Haymaker dealing muscular damage could in theory combo with Kneecap, but you'd realistically never get to that point without wasting Eject cooldown because Kneecap is a reload move. Where does the muscular damage come into play? Team synergy? You could get a lot higher DPS just shooting someone in the face. An idea I had was why not just get rid of the muscular damage and replace it with an affliction. Maybe something like DAZED? I feel it would be good not allow Scoundrels access to easy muscular damage (a class doesn't need to be able to do everything), and instead, double down on what they're good at, internal, mind and sensory.
On the topic of the dazed affliction, Infusing ammo inexplicably gives it instead of dizzy. Someone coded it wrong. Sensory is a weaker route for Scoundrels in general, so giving them dazed (say, from Haymaker) and dizzy would be alright, I think.
If we just wipe out muscular from the Scoundrel kit, then Kneecap should also lose that little aspect of its damage formula. Again with the doubling down aspect of things, it could give the Weakened Knees affliction instead, which would also retain its team synergy usage (since Scoundrels can't attack limbs as far as I know).
Suckerpunch shouldn't even be a reload ability. As a subsystem damage tool, it sucks. The damage sucks. The extra effect sucks. Anything it can do, fling can do better, and there's already a glut of reload abilities in the Scoundrel kit anyways. Why not just make it the Guile version of ambush (a suckerpunch is a 'surprise' hit), or some other stand alone ability that plays into that 'surprise' aspect. Maybe you can only do it if concealed, or it does more damage if you are, or if the target is blind or dazed or whatever, or maybe it scales to sensory subsystem damage, etc.
That's all I can think about right now, but overall, I just want to have a richer toolkit to use, especially in bashing. It's like the only thing there is to do right now besides flying a spaceship around, and it's terribly dull when everything boils down to one move.
Comments
So I'm 53 and on Anemoi I probed an eagle. about Equal strength to me. I ambush, rapidfire, crack, crack, fling ripper. I kill the eagle with maybe 50 health left? I'm autoqueing. I also have victoryrush. The only thing I can think that I don't have is shrapnel. I don't have enough lessons for the shrapnel skill yet.
Also, side question, What ammo should I be using?
I have shrapnel and while it does help, the two aggro mobs that like to wonder in at all times are what gets you killed.
You should be using weakening, it gives the bleeding effect. Though it doesn't show to much till you can start flinging shrapnel melters. Then the bleeds will stack up nicely.
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
(Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
(Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
(Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
(Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
- Ilyos (August 2019)
If that doesn't make sense - sometimes I stop attacking to stim, resume attacking and find afterwards that if I had not stimmed in the middle I would have taken one less hit from the mob before it died.
It is quite literally dependent on the area, target and your current gear/stats. Any time I'm in a new area, or pick up a new weapon maybe, I inspect the timing on the fights and work out whether I need to change any of the thresholds.
I definitely woudnt recommend the strategy in areas with aggressives, at the very least.
It turns out after some more bashing that the 7 bullet kill post rapidfire change with my normal rotation was vanishingly rare. In fact, it was pretty much non-existent, so the kill time was firmly 17.5/20. I wanted to try and see if there was any way I could squeeze that back in, and after a bunch of testing, I managed to get a consistent rotation down that kills in 7 bullets and one fling. My stat distribution hasn't changed, so I have 236 effective Aim (out of 300). It turns out that crackshot seems to do better DPS than rapidfire now, so unfortunately, instead of the 7 bullets being 2 rapids and 3 crackshots (14.5s), it's 1 rapid and 5 crackshots (16s).
Tldr;
Kill time is now 16.5/19 at 236 Aim.
Note that any mob with windups can muss up the numbers, since having to interrupt neuters your damage quite a bit, especially if you had to use your reload on it.
I also went out and tried messing around with 300 Aim because why not, and the increase in damage was actually really noticeable. I just swore off rapidshot almost entirely and just used ambush/crackshot and I've managed to get consistent 6 bullet kills. However, that's only when I start with 2 or less bullets, because shrapnel damage needs time to proc, which it doesn't get when I spend more than half my time shooting. I'm also killing faster than eject cooldown ends, so the rotation usually ends up being 2 mobs at 6 bullets, 1 mob at 7 bullets, repeat.
Tldr;
Kill time is now sometimes 15.5/18 at 300 Aim.
Kill time is now sometimes 16.5/19 at 300 Aim.
You save 0.66 seconds over 3 kills.
- Ilyos (August 2019)
I don't like how with all the cool subsystems in place, bashing has devolved from being an interactive experience where different abilities had their purpose to just 'dor crackshot'. This could be a symptom of how mobs are designed, and not a scoundrel issue. For example, if different mobs had different wetwiring priorities, I imagine we might see more varied and interesting bashing.
A lot of the Guile punchy abilities are still kind of worthless.
Haymaker dealing muscular damage could in theory combo with Kneecap, but you'd realistically never get to that point without wasting Eject cooldown because Kneecap is a reload move. Where does the muscular damage come into play? Team synergy? You could get a lot higher DPS just shooting someone in the face. An idea I had was why not just get rid of the muscular damage and replace it with an affliction. Maybe something like DAZED? I feel it would be good not allow Scoundrels access to easy muscular damage (a class doesn't need to be able to do everything), and instead, double down on what they're good at, internal, mind and sensory.
On the topic of the dazed affliction, Infusing ammo inexplicably gives it instead of dizzy. Someone coded it wrong. Sensory is a weaker route for Scoundrels in general, so giving them dazed (say, from Haymaker) and dizzy would be alright, I think.
If we just wipe out muscular from the Scoundrel kit, then Kneecap should also lose that little aspect of its damage formula. Again with the doubling down aspect of things, it could give the Weakened Knees affliction instead, which would also retain its team synergy usage (since Scoundrels can't attack limbs as far as I know).
Suckerpunch shouldn't even be a reload ability. As a subsystem damage tool, it sucks. The damage sucks. The extra effect sucks. Anything it can do, fling can do better, and there's already a glut of reload abilities in the Scoundrel kit anyways. Why not just make it the Guile version of ambush (a suckerpunch is a 'surprise' hit), or some other stand alone ability that plays into that 'surprise' aspect. Maybe you can only do it if concealed, or it does more damage if you are, or if the target is blind or dazed or whatever, or maybe it scales to sensory subsystem damage, etc.
That's all I can think about right now, but overall, I just want to have a richer toolkit to use, especially in bashing. It's like the only thing there is to do right now besides flying a spaceship around, and it's terribly dull when everything boils down to one move.