I'm going to list some thoughts about fury here, as I don't know where else to put them:
1. A lot of us have already mentioned this in various places, but losing stance every time you leave the room is probably going to make heartrend too easy to stop since it takes 7 seconds to get to Blaze for a heartrend after you leave the room and they can just keep leaving and never be able to be heartrended.
2. Atalkez and I were playing around with fury a lot, and we both came to the conclusion that it's pretty much best to never use rage until you get to 80, then unstoppable and use that for the quickest heartrend. This is kind of sad to me, though, because it seems very boring. I really wish we had more use for non-unstoppable rage attacks.
3. This is somewhat related to #2, and also something that's been discussed in more than one place, but the Spark stance seems very lackluster in terms of rage attacks if you don't have three afflictions stuck yet. Grapple and Sandblast seem never worth using.
4. We don't have a great way to damage internal like we do muscular. Most classes get to use whatever attacks they want and just spam them, while we have to cycle through stances, but I think we should have the option of constantly pressuring muscular or internal through those cycles without having to skip a combo. The issue here is Inferno stance, because the cycle for internal would be Wound > Hypertension > Drive > (something in Inferno) but nothing in Inferno does internal damage. This differs from the muscular cycle of Assail > Barrage > Sweep > Sting where each attack does muscular. I'd love to have an attack in Inferno that does internal damage.
5. I wish we had a better way to go defensive in a fight. Scoundrels can sleep you, beasts can netlaunch, nanoseer can pax. Deflect doesn't last long enough to heal anything (and is a channel, so can only let yourself passive regen, can't active regen with it up), and our other hinder seems to rely heavily on afflictions being stuck (which doesn't happen very easily). I might be missing something here.
6. Somewhat related to #5, it seems like limb breaks and proning would be a cool defensive option for a class like fury that targets limbs a lot, but we can't choose which limb we target, or even see which limb we hit, or when a limb breaks. If we could target a particular side (left or right) or even just see which side was hit, or when a limb breaks, that'd be nice for capitalizing with prones, etc. Having completely rng breaks that we can't see at all really bothers me as someone who enjoys combat strategy, because there's really no way to strategically take advantage of them when you don't know when they will happen or even that they did happen.
7. Judgement is very awkward to use. You need unstoppable to use it, and then it's competing with all the other great unstoppable abilities. It also isn't specific enough about afflictions for you to know if you can actually kill the person, since it just says a number of afflictions, and not how many are internal and how many are muscular, and its thresholds go by 25% while the kill goes by 10%. I end up just not using it at all. It'd be really nice to have a way to analyze people's status after combat has stopped for some small period, such as when someone disengages for a bit, but that's exactly when we can't use it because of the rage requirement.
I'd like to add on the fact that a mangled leg locks us out of 2/3 of our skillset even while standing. And we have nothing besides kith fever burn and suffuse to do during the 8s of mangle.
I've been chewing on a lot of the same issues as well and do think that in its present state Fury is a class that's going to have trouble getting anything serious done in PvP unless a person feels like being quite considerate and standing their ground for you. The tools you have to keep people in the room are underwhelming and the cost for failing to do so pretty extreme - total loss of your progress through stances at a minimum, total loss of your rage at a maximum.
Unstoppable is key for a lot of actual Fury pressure and the best-case time taken to reach it is 35 seconds (10 attacks at 8% rage with 3.5s balance taken) without fury usage versus 94.5 seconds (27 attacks at 8% rage with 3.5s balance, using fury attacks that consume 5% fury), and that time gap only broadens if you want or are forced to use rage maneuvers that take more than 5% like Resistant, Stun, Aftershock, the stance flips, and a handful of others, or if you need to suffuse more during that longer period, etc.
Speaking of the stance changes, Airflip/Airleap each cost 10% rage and seem totally underwhelming. They don't do much to broaden the combinations you can use - Inferno, Eruption, and Blaze are all locked behind a single attack in your tree, each, but two of those key attacks are found in the Flare stance. So in Airflip's case you're electing to give up an offensive rage attack and going into a rage net negative just to use Assail instead of Wound. That's pretty niche.
I'm not the most insightful when it comes to PvP and I'm sure as things keep getting tested better routes and combinations are going to come to light, but right now it looks pretty underwhelming. Especially with how the class change made it even easier to decommission our offense. Still, the class feels fun, fortunately.
I'm going to list some thoughts about fury here, as I don't know where else to put them:
1. A lot of us have already mentioned this in various places, but losing stance every time you leave the room is probably going to make heartrend too easy to stop since it takes 7 seconds to get to Blaze for a heartrend after you leave the room and they can just keep leaving and never be able to be heartrended
Best part about this is that BEAST can setup firewalls and ping-pong you constantly for massive damage and reset your stance.
I agree about airleap and airflip too. Airflip would make more sense if it went to Spark stance. Then there's at least the plausible purpose of heavily pressuring arms with Assail > Sting > Assail > Sting.
Airleap could be moved to Spark and transition you to Blaze, for the same kind of leg pressure chain (Sweep > Barrage > Sweep > Barrage). They still woudn't be worth 10 rage, but better than the current setup, which I can't actually think of a reason to use them in. 5 rage, or even less, like 3 rage, would be a better cost, since you're already sacrificing both the chance to use a different rage attack and delaying your time to unstoppable.
I'm going to list some thoughts about fury here, as I don't know where else to put them:
1. A lot of us have already mentioned this in various places, but losing stance every time you leave the room is probably going to make heartrend too easy to stop since it takes 7 seconds to get to Blaze for a heartrend after you leave the room and they can just keep leaving and never be able to be heartrended
Best part about this is that BEAST can setup firewalls and ping-pong you constantly for massive damage and reset your stance.
We have 0 options to punish that.
Being off balance doesn't stop this either, I confirmed that tonight. So attacking the person does nothing.
Heard rumours Fury bashing was awful, decided to switch to Scoundrel to compare. Using the bleed/hypertension/unstoppable/slice combo that's been mentioned a few times, my dps as a level 20-22 Fury with a 19 (4377 power) blade was less than Scoundrel with a level 1 (3225 power) piece. Generally same damage done (slice was a bit higher) per hit, but Scoundrel crackshot on 2.5s bal and rapidfire on 3.5s bal bumped DPS just above my Fury DPS. Tested all these on all varieties of Terraworm for consistency.
Seems a tiny bit broken considering the weapon power difference.
ETA: Tests were done with equal amounts in Strength or Aim, depending on class, and using rippers to reload on Scoundrel.
Another Scoundrel, same result. I spend nearly the entire fight spamming through "You are suddenly puzzled", which starts happening very quickly (which ends up working against you once the balance knocks start happening, since the balance malus stacks, so spamming is a massive negative). I started taking the random balance knock (Your mind wanders aimlessly, distracting you from current events) around 85% Mind, then stupidity at 75%. Failed two of my Unstoppable rage attacks from it as well. For what it does, this happening at 75% seems a little quick. Thoughts?
(Your mind wanders aimlessly, distracting you from current events) around 85% Mind, then stupidity at 75%. Failed two of my Unstoppable rage attacks from it as well. For what it does, this happening at 75% seems a little quick. Thoughts?
The distraction thing is from IED, which effects scale with how many mind affs you have. (not saying it's not strong, just the 'conditions' for it so to speak)
I didn't even know stupidity was automatically given at 75%, it seems pretty highly unnecessary given everything else. Should probably be at like 25 or 50% if anything, with how easy every class that does mind damage pushes you down to 75%.
You should prioritize affs with wetwiring to combat the distraction. It doesn't look like you are.
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
You should prioritize affs with wetwiring to combat the distraction. It doesn't look like you are.
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
Can't even spam rage attacks cause if it gets eaten, you've already flowed into the new stance and can't use the rage ability anymore.
You should prioritize affs with wetwiring to combat the distraction. It doesn't look like you are.
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
I’ve had better luck prioritizing systems over affs against scoundrel. The affs they give aren’t as debilitating as the affs you get from system damage that matter more. Putting it first, I was able to keep stupidity off me long enough to almost reach Unstoppable. I’ll try an aff prio and see how that goes.
Ive mentioned it to Tecton that with Stupidity and Prone interactions, the COMBO command is all but useless. I’m hoping they will work it so that if the battle flow connects, the rage will fire too, regardless of state at that point. I think Stupidity is too strong to be at 75% (although the 10% supposed fire rate doesn’t seem correct. It seems to fire at a much higher rate). It’s hard for me to make suggestions about the class itself with this being such a glaring disruption.
Switching the he subject, any reason to invest stat points into Psyche? I have Lifeforce, Strength and Regen all “maxed” out at 200, was thinking Evasion as next priority, but wanted to check with those who are further along..? Any thoughts?
+50 (200 total) is just went DRs kick in. The actual cap is 400 (+250) - by the time you hit 75 you have enough points to fully max out 2, with a good amount of stats in a 3rd.
I've just been putting every single point into lifeforce so far because it seems to work the best. Regen is next to useless at lower levels, base regen is 4% and caps (at 250) at 8%. Strength is negligible increases to damage at lower levels, I can see it being good once you get higher though and have mods etc in weapon. Evasion sucks, Psyche is kinda pointless because Battleflow/Rage bashing is significantly greater than Fulmination bashing.
eta to clarify:
-------------------------------< Player stats >-------------------------------- Stat Base Assigned Rewards Total Effective ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strength 150 0 0 150 150 Psyche 150 0 0 150 150 Lifeforce 150 178 0 328 264 Evasion 150 0 0 150 150 Regen 150 0 0 150 150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Available stat points: 0. Health: 2547/2670 RG: 15.00% [BWC]
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/xkNxuRe5 50 regen/lifeforce, rest in strength (126 so far) - 300 less health. 01:19.765 -> 01:42.870. Minus 2 seconds for suffuse... 21.1 seconds to kill. 1783 damage / 21.1 = 84.5 dps
Not sure yet if 300 less health is worth taking 1 less balance to kill. Will keep running with this strength build and see how it pans out, while we still have free resets.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/xkNxuRe5 50 regen/lifeforce, rest in strength (126 so far) - 300 less health. 01:19.765 -> 01:42.870. Minus 2 seconds for suffuse... 21.1 seconds to kill. 1783 damage / 21.1 = 84.5 dps
Anecdotal test, but going to continue running with this build for now to see if 300 less health is worth taking 1 less balance (roughly) to kill things.
You should prioritize affs with wetwiring to combat the distraction. It doesn't look like you are.
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
Can't even spam rage attacks cause if it gets eaten, you've already flowed into the new stance and can't use the rage ability anymore.
The window for rage use starts when you change stance and ends shortly after. You don't have to enter the rage attack before the stance change, so I'd assume spamming works. You just can't spam COMBO because of the way that functions. You'd have to spam rage separately.
You should prioritize affs with wetwiring to combat the distraction. It doesn't look like you are.
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
I’ve had better luck prioritizing systems over affs against scoundrel. The affs they give aren’t as debilitating as the affs you get from system damage that matter more. Putting it first, I was able to keep stupidity off me long enough to almost reach Unstoppable. I’ll try an aff prio and see how that goes.
Ive mentioned it to Tecton that with Stupidity and Prone interactions, the COMBO command is all but useless. I’m hoping they will work it so that if the battle flow connects, the rage will fire too, regardless of state at that point. I think Stupidity is too strong to be at 75% (although the 10% supposed fire rate doesn’t not seem correct. It seems to fire at a much higher rate). It’s hard for me to make suggestions about the class itself with this being such a glaring disruption.
Idk, it's literally .5% heal every 5 or 6 seconds. That seems fairly insignificant to me, compared to keeping distraction (the passive balance knocks) off you. Just my opinion, though. Not like I'm an expert either.
Now that I think about it, moving Asymmetry to Inferno could be a good change too. Then we can use that for hinder without having to sacrifice hypertension (one of our only good internal damage attacks) for it.
For any others like myself whose head was spinning trying to follow where branch points in Battleflow progressions could lead you to, hopefully the image above helps...
As was mentioned above, there are also Rage stance change abilities but I didn't include the links as they broke the symmetry of the graph. For the sake of completeness, rage links allow:
AIRLEAP - Eruption to Inferno
AIRFLIP - Blaze to Eruption
POSITON - Requires UNSTOPPABLE, switch to any stance.
(If anyone spots any errors in the image, just let me know)
I have a bug in about this but it happens infrequently enough that I wasn't able to add much detail, so I figured I'd see if anyone else has run into issues with stances not changing properly after Battleflow attacks on very rare occasions or coming out after an unusual delay.
<b>14:36:56.649 You: Blade Swiftcut -> a sly cania</b>.<br>14:36:56.649 The effect is enhanced by heavy muscular damage.<br>14:36:56.649 Damage Dealt: 242 impact<br>14:36:56.649 You have slain a sly cania.<br>14:36:56.649 You salvage a bony skull and an extraction of taurine from the lifeless remains.<br>14:36:56.649 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:36:56.649 You can find no such target.<br>14:36:59.881 You must recover balance before you can do that.<br>14:37:00.198 You have recovered your balance.<br><b>14:37:00.584 You walk to the north.</b><br>14:37:00.584 In the searing desert. <br>14:37:00.584 Like a dark shadow, a caliginous eagle rests upon the sand. A ferocious, brown-scaled tigrid slinks around. A broken engine from a hover vehicle lies on the dusty ground. A metal panel sticks out of the ground, painted with faded symbols. 2 sparse bushes are here. 10 corpses are here.<br>14:37:00.584 [s] -> The sloped, northeast shore of a bubbling hot spring<br>14:37:00.584 [nw] -> In the searing desert<br><b>14:37:00.709 You: Kith Stance Flare.</b><br>14:37:01.706 The opportunity for using a rage attack has passed.<br>14:37:02.742 You: Blade Wound -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:02.742 Damage Dealt: 260 impact<br>14:37:02.742 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:37:02.742 You will execute the rend rage maneuver when you can.<br>14:37:04.539 You: Kith Stance Eruption.<br>14:37:04.539 You: Rage Rend -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:04.539 Damage Dealt: 200 impact<br>14:37:06.265 You have recovered your balance.<br>14:37:06.346 Sooty black wings blot out the sky as a caliginous eagle descends upon your head, battering you with powerful, dazing strikes.<br>14:37:06.346 The fire that flickers around you burns a caliginous eagle as well, causing it to shrink back from you.<br>14:37:06.346 Damage Dealt: 49 thermal<br>14:37:06.356 You: Blade Hypertension -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:06.356 Damage Dealt: 342 impact<br>14:37:06.356 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:37:06.356 You will execute the upperlash rage maneuver when you can.<br>14:37:07.895 You: Kith Stance Ember.<br>14:37:07.895 You: Rage Upperlash -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:07.895 Damage Dealt: 244 impact<br>14:37:07.895 Damage Dealt: 149 unblockable<br>14:37:07.895 A caliginous eagle has cured the effects of Bleeding.<br>14:37:09.639 Beating its wings powerfully, a caliginous eagle kicks up a small sandstorm around the area. Sharp-edged grit and dust flies into your eyes, stinging and disorienting.<br>14:37:09.639 You skillfully avoid some of the damage!<br>14:37:09.639 The fire that flickers around you burns a caliginous eagle as well, causing it to shrink back from you.<br>14:37:09.639 Damage Dealt: 43 thermal<br>
In this case the stance change didn't happen until 4 seconds after the attack, which was enough time to recover balance and move to another room. The other instance happened a little while ago and I didn't think to copy it, but I used Swiftcut on a mob, didn't change stance, recovered balance, used Swiftcut again, and did change stance as per usual. Has anyone else run into this, and with any attacks other than Swiftcut?
I haven’t ran into this issue yet. What is curious is that moving is supposed to drop stance (unless that got changed and I’ve missed it), so you should have gone to Symmetry anyway. Interesting
I have a bug in about this but it happens infrequently enough that I wasn't able to add much detail, so I figured I'd see if anyone else has run into issues with stances not changing properly after Battleflow attacks on very rare occasions or coming out after an unusual delay.
<b>14:36:56.649 You: Blade Swiftcut -> a sly cania</b>.<br>14:36:56.649 The effect is enhanced by heavy muscular damage.<br>14:36:56.649 Damage Dealt: 242 impact<br>14:36:56.649 You have slain a sly cania.<br>14:36:56.649 You salvage a bony skull and an extraction of taurine from the lifeless remains.<br>14:36:56.649 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:36:56.649 You can find no such target.<br>14:36:59.881 You must recover balance before you can do that.<br>14:37:00.198 You have recovered your balance.<br><b>14:37:00.584 You walk to the north.</b><br>14:37:00.584 In the searing desert. <br>14:37:00.584 Like a dark shadow, a caliginous eagle rests upon the sand. A ferocious, brown-scaled tigrid slinks around. A broken engine from a hover vehicle lies on the dusty ground. A metal panel sticks out of the ground, painted with faded symbols. 2 sparse bushes are here. 10 corpses are here.<br>14:37:00.584 [s] -> The sloped, northeast shore of a bubbling hot spring<br>14:37:00.584 [nw] -> In the searing desert<br><b>14:37:00.709 You: Kith Stance Flare.</b><br>14:37:01.706 The opportunity for using a rage attack has passed.<br>14:37:02.742 You: Blade Wound -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:02.742 Damage Dealt: 260 impact<br>14:37:02.742 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:37:02.742 You will execute the rend rage maneuver when you can.<br>14:37:04.539 You: Kith Stance Eruption.<br>14:37:04.539 You: Rage Rend -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:04.539 Damage Dealt: 200 impact<br>14:37:06.265 You have recovered your balance.<br>14:37:06.346 Sooty black wings blot out the sky as a caliginous eagle descends upon your head, battering you with powerful, dazing strikes.<br>14:37:06.346 The fire that flickers around you burns a caliginous eagle as well, causing it to shrink back from you.<br>14:37:06.346 Damage Dealt: 49 thermal<br>14:37:06.356 You: Blade Hypertension -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:06.356 Damage Dealt: 342 impact<br>14:37:06.356 Balance used: 3.50s.<br>14:37:06.356 You will execute the upperlash rage maneuver when you can.<br>14:37:07.895 You: Kith Stance Ember.<br>14:37:07.895 You: Rage Upperlash -> a caliginous eagle.<br>14:37:07.895 Damage Dealt: 244 impact<br>14:37:07.895 Damage Dealt: 149 unblockable<br>14:37:07.895 A caliginous eagle has cured the effects of Bleeding.<br>14:37:09.639 Beating its wings powerfully, a caliginous eagle kicks up a small sandstorm around the area. Sharp-edged grit and dust flies into your eyes, stinging and disorienting.<br>14:37:09.639 You skillfully avoid some of the damage!<br>14:37:09.639 The fire that flickers around you burns a caliginous eagle as well, causing it to shrink back from you.<br>14:37:09.639 Damage Dealt: 43 thermal<br>
In this case the stance change didn't happen until 4 seconds after the attack, which was enough time to recover balance and move to another room. The other instance happened a little while ago and I didn't think to copy it, but I used Swiftcut on a mob, didn't change stance, recovered balance, used Swiftcut again, and did change stance as per usual. Has anyone else run into this, and with any attacks other than Swiftcut?
I've run into this a few times, might be server lag causing it
Quicksand should probably fade after five seconds of the fury being out of room. I like it as a defensive tool, but 30 seconds of being unable to chase is pretty extreme.
Comments
I'm going to list some thoughts about fury here, as I don't know where else to put them:
1. A lot of us have already mentioned this in various places, but losing stance every time you leave the room is probably going to make heartrend too easy to stop since it takes 7 seconds to get to Blaze for a heartrend after you leave the room and they can just keep leaving and never be able to be heartrended.
2. Atalkez and I were playing around with fury a lot, and we both came to the conclusion that it's pretty much best to never use rage until you get to 80, then unstoppable and use that for the quickest heartrend. This is kind of sad to me, though, because it seems very boring. I really wish we had more use for non-unstoppable rage attacks.
3. This is somewhat related to #2, and also something that's been discussed in more than one place, but the Spark stance seems very lackluster in terms of rage attacks if you don't have three afflictions stuck yet. Grapple and Sandblast seem never worth using.
4. We don't have a great way to damage internal like we do muscular. Most classes get to use whatever attacks they want and just spam them, while we have to cycle through stances, but I think we should have the option of constantly pressuring muscular or internal through those cycles without having to skip a combo. The issue here is Inferno stance, because the cycle for internal would be Wound > Hypertension > Drive > (something in Inferno) but nothing in Inferno does internal damage. This differs from the muscular cycle of Assail > Barrage > Sweep > Sting where each attack does muscular. I'd love to have an attack in Inferno that does internal damage.
5. I wish we had a better way to go defensive in a fight. Scoundrels can sleep you, beasts can netlaunch, nanoseer can pax. Deflect doesn't last long enough to heal anything (and is a channel, so can only let yourself passive regen, can't active regen with it up), and our other hinder seems to rely heavily on afflictions being stuck (which doesn't happen very easily). I might be missing something here.
6. Somewhat related to #5, it seems like limb breaks and proning would be a cool defensive option for a class like fury that targets limbs a lot, but we can't choose which limb we target, or even see which limb we hit, or when a limb breaks. If we could target a particular side (left or right) or even just see which side was hit, or when a limb breaks, that'd be nice for capitalizing with prones, etc. Having completely rng breaks that we can't see at all really bothers me as someone who enjoys combat strategy, because there's really no way to strategically take advantage of them when you don't know when they will happen or even that they did happen.
7. Judgement is very awkward to use. You need unstoppable to use it, and then it's competing with all the other great unstoppable abilities. It also isn't specific enough about afflictions for you to know if you can actually kill the person, since it just says a number of afflictions, and not how many are internal and how many are muscular, and its thresholds go by 25% while the kill goes by 10%. I end up just not using it at all. It'd be really nice to have a way to analyze people's status after combat has stopped for some small period, such as when someone disengages for a bit, but that's exactly when we can't use it because of the rage requirement.
We have 0 options to punish that.
I agree about airleap and airflip too. Airflip would make more sense if it went to Spark stance. Then there's at least the plausible purpose of heavily pressuring arms with Assail > Sting > Assail > Sting.
Airleap could be moved to Spark and transition you to Blaze, for the same kind of leg pressure chain (Sweep > Barrage > Sweep > Barrage). They still woudn't be worth 10 rage, but better than the current setup, which I can't actually think of a reason to use them in. 5 rage, or even less, like 3 rage, would be a better cost, since you're already sacrificing both the chance to use a different rage attack and delaying your time to unstoppable.
Made a spreadsheet for Battleflow/Rage attacks for anyone interested.
Seems a tiny bit broken considering the weapon power difference.
ETA: Tests were done with equal amounts in Strength or Aim, depending on class, and using rippers to reload on Scoundrel.
Another Scoundrel, same result. I spend nearly the entire fight spamming through "You are suddenly puzzled", which starts happening very quickly (which ends up working against you once the balance knocks start happening, since the balance malus stacks, so spamming is a massive negative). I started taking the random balance knock (Your mind wanders aimlessly, distracting you from current events) around 85% Mind, then stupidity at 75%. Failed two of my Unstoppable rage attacks from it as well. For what it does, this happening at 75% seems a little quick. Thoughts?
Stupidity alone is not necessarily a problem (though annoying) since you can spam through it. It's forgetfulness (which you get at 50% I think) that adds the balance knock. It's annoying that it counters the rage attack specifically though, given that Starmourn is meant to not require triggers for stuff like that and it really, in its present state, means we need to add some kind of trigger to multi-use rage attacks imo, since that's not something spamming our combo alias will get us through.
To expound a bit further, I don't think forgetfulness is a problem per se because I think 50% damage is supposed to be dangerous. I think scoundrel is probably out of whack in how fast it gets there, though. With double shot and crackshot, scoundrel essentially does two bullets at 2.5 sec bal each then two at 1.7 sec bal each on repeat. Fury hits consistently at 3.5 sec bal yet does the same 2% per attack of subsystem damage (being generous, since in Symmetry or Inferno you do 0, though admittedly in Inferno you might get 2% from aftershock). There are two stances where you can also do a rage ability for 1% extra subsystem damage.
Now, fury is unusual in that its subsystem damage starts slow but massively picks up in unstoppable stance, but it still seems to me that scoundrel might be unusually fast?
Can't even spam rage attacks cause if it gets eaten, you've already flowed into the new stance and can't use the rage ability anymore.
Ive mentioned it to Tecton that with Stupidity and Prone interactions, the COMBO command is all but useless. I’m hoping they will work it so that if the battle flow connects, the rage will fire too, regardless of state at that point. I think Stupidity is too strong to be at 75% (although the 10% supposed fire rate doesn’t seem correct. It seems to fire at a much higher rate). It’s hard for me to make suggestions about the class itself with this being such a glaring disruption.
Stat Base Assigned Rewards Total Effective
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strength 150 0 0 150 150
Psyche 150 0 0 150 150
Lifeforce 150 178 0 328 264
Evasion 150 0 0 150 150
Regen 150 0 0 150 150
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available stat points: 0.
Health: 2547/2670 RG: 15.00% [BWC]
59:35.915 -> 00:03.016. Minus 2 seconds for the suffuse... 26 seconds to kill.
1767 damage / 26 = 68 dps
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/xkNxuRe5 50 regen/lifeforce, rest in strength (126 so far) - 300 less health.
01:19.765 -> 01:42.870. Minus 2 seconds for suffuse... 21.1 seconds to kill.
1783 damage / 21.1 = 84.5 dps
Not sure yet if 300 less health is worth taking 1 less balance to kill. Will keep running with this strength build and see how it pans out, while we still have free resets.
59:35.915 -> 00:03.016. Minus 2 seconds for the suffuse... 26 seconds to kill.
1767 damage / 26 = 68 dps
01:19.765 -> 01:42.870. Minus 2 seconds for suffuse... 21.1 seconds to kill.
1783 damage / 21.1 = 84.5 dps
Anecdotal test, but going to continue running with this build for now to see if 300 less health is worth taking 1 less balance (roughly) to kill things.
The window for rage use starts when you change stance and ends shortly after. You don't have to enter the rage attack before the stance change, so I'd assume spamming works. You just can't spam COMBO because of the way that functions. You'd have to spam rage separately.
Idk, it's literally .5% heal every 5 or 6 seconds. That seems fairly insignificant to me, compared to keeping distraction (the passive balance knocks) off you. Just my opinion, though. Not like I'm an expert either.
In this case the stance change didn't happen until 4 seconds after the attack, which was enough time to recover balance and move to another room. The other instance happened a little while ago and I didn't think to copy it, but I used Swiftcut on a mob, didn't change stance, recovered balance, used Swiftcut again, and did change stance as per usual. Has anyone else run into this, and with any attacks other than Swiftcut?