Refinery, Market orders and mining tweaks

Tiase

I've been playing Starmourn for a week or so and I must say I love discovering what the game offers. I found the market order and refinery commands a little confusing to begin with. It's obvious once you figure it out. 

One thing I don't like is that you have to pick the % when you take an order (i.e sell your refined gas/asteroid). It gets confusing, I don't know if it's in hard units or a percentage because the syntax just accepts numbers. Can we either add a shipsim prompt which converts the percentage into hard units? It would be less confusing if it was listed in units.

The other thing is that a warning that you can't cancel orders once you take them. For newer players (where 50 marks is a big deal) a warning the game should refuse to accept orders unless you enough units already in your cargo hold to complete the order will be very helpful. 

When you're taking an order it should show a prompt of how many scooped units of gas you'll need to complete the market order, for newer players.

I'm enjoying the game immensely

Slander

I just woke up and am not in game yet but I think it's (just examples) MARKET ORDER TAKE 1 5 to agree to sell 5 units and MARKET ORDER TAKE 1 5 PERCENT to do a percentage. Also, because of refining speeds, I highly suggest not taking an order until the product has already been refined.

Tiase

I remember trying to figure out the market and refinery commands. I don't know if I typed stuff wrong but it took a good 20 minutes plus me pestering @Vianou to figure it out. 

FOr new players, the first time they head back into the station with a full load of gas, I think alongside the station warning, our mindsim or shipsim should prompt us to refine the gas first. 

E.g 
[Alex] Hey boss! That's a safety risk, process the gas at the REFINERY first! Check the LIST for the station HERE. Don't forget to check the MARKET for ORDERs boss! 

or something to that effect. 

Ah, right. I just discovered the updated HELP MINING and HELP REFINING files. Whoever wrote that good job! (could have used it back then though!) 

Matlkael

In light of the new Station Missions (NEWS READ UPDATE 165), I'd like to add in a few resource-gathering ideas: (sorry, @Tiase, for the hijack!)

So, I feel like there's a lot of things going on in the demand side of the economy (NPC orders, player orders, and now, station missions). That's really great!

The supply side, however, faces more of a problem. Not the availability of resources, per se (I notice there are lot more asteroids now, and gases, in particular, can be farmed). Refining bonuses in remote stations is also really great in maximising resources.

The problem lies in gathering; specifically, the tediousness of it. Flying around and targetting single squares in the vastness of space is so, so clunky. So, here are my suggestions!

First, make multi-tethering of asteroids possible again. Instead of the current asteroid-refinery-asteroid-refinery, we could asteroid-asteroid-refinery.

Second, turn scoops into vacuums. The tight turns and necessity for slow speeds in order to mow gas is the most frustrating part of gas scooping. Instead, make it so that everything within a ship's cone will be vacuumed in after a delay similar to asteroid tethering.

That's it! TL;DR: gathering is painful, make it less so!

Tiase

*post moved to new thread* 
 

@Matlkaeleh, that's what this thread is for!

Matlkael

Yeah, that's what I mean. It takes ten minutes to scoop up a cloud, as opposed to the 10 seconds it takes to tether an asteroid.

Lhundrup

The reason I don't mine is because it just isn't worth the time to me... I'm one of the people that actually enjoys mining activities, going out looking for resources, watching my reserves fill up, selling off the resources to the manufacturers (I have no interest in manufacturing). It's relaxing to me. Scooping isn't too bad in my opinion (Though I would welcome a vacuum-type harvester).

The reason I don't mine in Starmourn is that it just isn't rewarding enough, even after the yield increase. I feel that a 2:1 ratio for refining would be an acceptable amount.
That would be 100 usable material per full scoop, profiting about 15-20 marks per, that's 1500-2000 marks per ~15-20 minutes of scooping (averaging from recent mining excursions). I think that's a fair wage for a fair amount of work. 

Kitrana

i would personally recommend just removing the marker order take command all together i can't imagine why the devs thought it should be that you have to reserve how much your going to sell.

i would just set up the system so people could deposit what they have up to the amount of the order. It's simpler on the miner's side of things. it isn't like you can reserve a set amount go out mine it and refine it and then get to the place the order is in all in 120 anyway. So your filling market orders based on what you have in stock or have just recently mined.

Lhundrup

I've spent a few hours scooping and mining today, and here's how I think it can be improved to be less tedious:

I'm wasting a lot of time just wandering aimlessly hoping to bump into a cloud or asteroid - This gets old fast. I think there should be some type of item or skill available that is specifically for detecting resources at a longer distance. Maybe a command such as SURVEY or PROSPECT that will scan an entire 250x250 zone for all resource deposits. Or, even just detects the nearest deposit regardless of distance, or a 500 unit range.

SURVEY IRIIL "You launch a survey drone that quickly begins scanning the area for nearby resources" (balance time) "You have discovered a deposit of Iriil 350 units to the SouthEast" or if outside of a 500 unit range "There are no detectable deposits of Iriil nearby" Maybe this should be a skill, maybe it should be a purchasable/craftable item... Or both.

PROSPECT TITANIUM "You launch a prospect drone that begins scanning the area for nearby asteroids containing Titanium" (balance time) "You have discovered an asteroid containing Titanium 425 units to the NorthEast" if outside of a 500 unit range "There are no detectable asteroids nearby"

Or, just an item/skill that scans the current 250x250 area in its entirety for asteroids or clouds.

Now, maybe the PROSPECT command wouldn't be able to detect the material of an asteroid so probing is still a thing... However, I feel that probing is a silly thing - and asteroids should be color-coded as clouds are, and tell you what they are with your beacon.

Cubey

Lhundrup said:

I think there should be some type of item or skill available that is specifically for detecting resources at a longer distance. Maybe a command such as SURVEY or PROSPECT that will scan an entire 250x250 zone for all resource deposits. Or, even just detects the nearest deposit regardless of distance, or a 500 unit range.

It's called owning a cosmpiercer. You can scan the whole area around it.

Tiase

Just so you guys know. If I'm refining something at 9 per unit. filling market orders at 25 per is just about enough profit to make it worth my while. 

9x40 = 360 
Scoop=  42
time  =15-60mins

so if I sell at 25 per. 
  40x25 = 1000
cost of production= 400 (rounded down)
Profit =600

Iriil refines at 15 ...and sells at 30 

Refining
15x40 = 600
scoop  = 40 (ish maybe less if I can find a bargain)

1200= profit 560

I juuuuuust about get my money back. If you want your orders filled quicker, please pay more! 

I think the general formula for the minimum price should be at least 3 times the cost of refining. 

Matlkael

Yeah, I'm converting to a formula of refining*2. *3 might be too expensive, especially if you consider that refined resources still need to be sent into autofactories to be useful. Each step in the production process is an added cost.

Tiase

@Matlkael 2.5? 2 is a little too low. the .5 covers the cost of scoops, and probes and pads out the time invested

Kitrana

Tiase said:

Just so you guys know. If I'm refining something at 9 per unit. filling market orders at 25 per is just about enough profit to make it worth my while. 

9x40 = 360 
Scoop=  42
time  =15-60mins

so if I sell at 25 per. 
  40x25 = 1000
cost of production= 400 (rounded down)
Profit =600

Iriil refines at 15 ...and sells at 30 

Refining
15x40 = 600
scoop  = 40 (ish maybe less if I can find a bargain)

1200= profit 560

I juuuuuust about get my money back. If you want your orders filled quicker, please pay more! 

I think the general formula for the minimum price should be at least 3 times the cost of refining. 

the problem there is refining costs are to variable, figuring out what the cost of your order should be is a very complicated thing that most people simply aren't going to do

Tiase

to give you a baseline. for tritum and hellium11 9 is the lowest. 

titanium 10 (because of @Jassaet )

Iriil 15 

Diamane 21 

@Kitrana these are the lowest refinery prices I've found at Omni. 

Kitrana

Tiase said:

to give you a baseline. for tritum and hellium11 9 is the lowest. 

titanium 10 (because of @Jassaet )

Iriil 15 

Diamane 21 

@Kitrana these are the lowest refinery prices I've found at Omni. 

that pretty much matches iota, personally, i would love to see the situation where you can make a solid profit on a single cloud of gas

Lhundrup

Cubey said:

Lhundrup said:

I think there should be some type of item or skill available that is specifically for detecting resources at a longer distance. Maybe a command such as SURVEY or PROSPECT that will scan an entire 250x250 zone for all resource deposits. Or, even just detects the nearest deposit regardless of distance, or a 500 unit range.

It's called owning a cosmpiercer. You can scan the whole area around it.

Well, that's all fine and dandy for the ~20% of space - But, these areas are also open PVP and you need to be physically within the influence area to COSMPIERCER SURVEY the area and many are pretty far away from the major trade hubs. I still believe we gatherers need an ability to scan for resources at a further distance, regardless of whether their faction (or lack thereof) controls a cosmpiercer. I would be happy with just being able to scan the entire 250X250 zone you're currently in for resources.

Kitrana

Lhundrup said:

Cubey said:

Lhundrup said:

I think there should be some type of item or skill available that is specifically for detecting resources at a longer distance. Maybe a command such as SURVEY or PROSPECT that will scan an entire 250x250 zone for all resource deposits. Or, even just detects the nearest deposit regardless of distance, or a 500 unit range.

It's called owning a cosmpiercer. You can scan the whole area around it.

Well, that's all fine and dandy for the ~20% of space - But, these areas are also open PVP and you need to be physically within the influence area to COSMPIERCER SURVEY the area and many are pretty far away from the major trade hubs. I still believe we gatherers need an ability to scan for resources at a further distance, regardless of whether their faction (or lack thereof) controls a cosmpiercer. I would be happy with just being able to scan the entire 250X250 zone you're currently in for resources.

pferably with x and y coordinates instead of the north south east and west data you get from cosmpiercer survey full

Matlkael

@Kitrana You can JOIN MARKET (it's a clan for Market stuff). In it, there's a refinery database (CLHELP REFINERIES) that can hopefully help you with finding the cheapest and most convenient refineries.

Now that we've engaged more people to go out and gather resources, I think we can assess a more accurate picture of the spawnrates and drains of things.

Vandium, iriil and titanium are the obvious choices to bump; there are 0 for sale on MARKET OFFERs, while vandium has 1637, iriil 1653, and titanium 2477 on MARKET ORDERs. Astrium also has 0 offers and a smaller 100 order.

All the rest of the resources are spread thin, as well, with the exception of ultarine and elessium. Considering the NPC orders for ship explosions, station missions, and the regular PC demand for supplies, the demand for resources seems to far outstrip the supply (that is, the spawnrate of clouds and asteroids).

I've flown around every which way and can only find a few bits here and there. Can the admin make a more detailed assessment into this? Thanks!

RocketCat

And now that resources are pouring in, I would LOVE to have Courier and Sale Contracts to get spacetruckers to ship my stuff around and/or directly sell resources and/or transfer to a specific player for x amount. Yay!

Tiase

@RocketCat

You have my attention. Lets talk. 

RocketCat

Tiase said:

@RocketCat

You have my attention. Lets talk. 

Heh, the problem is that it's so tedious to transfer cargo that it defeats the purpose of paying someone else to do the work of hauling. Would require coded Hauling contracts to work properly, I think.

Tiase

RocketCat said:

Tiase said:

@RocketCat

You have my attention. Lets talk. 

Heh, the problem is that it's so tedious to transfer cargo that it defeats the purpose of paying someone else to do the work of hauling. Would require coded Hauling contracts to work properly, I think.

I don't mind, I regularly fly to the edges of the map and back. I'd say would be happy to go take contracts to bring up a regular supply of resources but with EVERYONE out mining, it's not really worth my time. 

Kitrana

RocketCat said:

And now that resources are pouring in, I would LOVE to have Courier and Sale Contracts to get spacetruckers to ship my stuff around and/or directly sell resources and/or transfer to a specific player for x amount. Yay!

you have mine as well. i went into space to be a trucker and a miner

Kirin

There are a few other tweaks related to market orders, manufacturing that I would like to see

1) CARGO CONTENTS <FILTER>
Filter should take the value destination OR commodity
currently, there is no way to tell where in the sector you have a particular of a commodity. Or, what all commodities you have in a particular location.

2) Remote queuing of jobs. If I have an autofactory in a remote sector, please let me queue jobs without travelling to the station. As such it shouldn't be difficult to instruct AI to take care of it, provided you have resources.

3) I am not happy with the Market order/ offer help files. 
->There is not enough explanation as to if commodity prices are per unit or as a whole

Kitrana

Kirin said:

There are a few other tweaks related to market orders, manufacturing that I would like to see

1) CARGO CONTENTS <FILTER>
Filter should take the value destination OR commodity
currently, there is no way to tell where in the sector you have a particular of a commodity. Or, what all commodities you have in a particular location.

2) Remote queuing of jobs. If I have an autofactory in a remote sector, please let me queue jobs without travelling to the station. As such it shouldn't be difficult to instruct AI to take care of it, provided you have resources.

3) I am not happy with the Market order/ offer help files. 
->There is not enough explanation as to if commodity prices are per unit or as a whole

CARGO CONTENTS ALL shows everything you have in any cargo storage and what station it is at.

Kirin

Kitrana said:

Kirin said:

There are a few other tweaks related to market orders, manufacturing that I would like to see

1) CARGO CONTENTS <FILTER>
Filter should take the value destination OR commodity
currently, there is no way to tell where in the sector you have a particular of a commodity. Or, what all commodities you have in a particular location.

2) Remote queuing of jobs. If I have an autofactory in a remote sector, please let me queue jobs without travelling to the station. As such it shouldn't be difficult to instruct AI to take care of it, provided you have resources.

3) I am not happy with the Market order/ offer help files. 
->There is not enough explanation as to if commodity prices are per unit or as a whole

CARGO CONTENTS ALL shows everything you have in any cargo storage and what station it is at.

I have cargo at over 20 stations - all is not ideal. I just need something to see where each of my commodities are