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Engineer feedback, round 2

ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
in Feedback


No one seems to be taking the initiative in compiling an email, so I hope a forum thread will do. Engineers, please leave feedback if you have any

-

So for mine...
* I think PvE is well balanced. After the last pass we got basically 3 ways to reach the same kill time using different varieties of gadgets, plus some less conventional options... I'm pretty happy with it and don't particularly want to see it changed. (And nice job to whoever did this first pass)
* PvP I don't have much idea on, other than I've heard engineer pvpers say EM is still a no go...
* UAVs are a bit useless. Patrols are a bit useless. What if bots could report when they see an enemy, or an enemy enters their location? That would make both useful. Currently if someone wanted to make UAVs useful, they'd have to leave it in a location (can't remote order moves and automatically recalls on logout), and make a script that automatically spams 'order uav12345 look' frequently and parses it. Not pleasant to use clientside, and command spam probably isn't viewed favorably serverside...?
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Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Wuff said:
    Why would EM be a no-go now?
    If I remember right, something about crashing out of the room negating it and/or just being more difficult to build than other kill paths. Hopefully an experienced pvper will speak up with all the details.
  • bairlochbairloch Member Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    I'll second the uselessness of UAVs and my delight at finding I can kill things however I want now. No longer locked in to claw/claw/claw.
    Has there been a need/usefulness discovered for the Hoverboard yet? I haven't come across any elevated enemies or elevated entries/exits. No spoilers necessary, just a yes/no would be great.
    I still think EM should do extra damage on anything electronic. I'd say that mindsims and beast armor is shielded, but a malfunctioning windmill drone? It should take hard damage from EM.
    It's petty, but it annoys me that, as an engineer, I can't rig anything in my ship. Han wasn't an engineer but he made lots of modifications to the Falcon. I'd think my knowledge would be applicable in space as well. More so than your average pilot. (could be a whole thing, BEAST with better handling because handling an interface is what they do all day, engi's are better at repair, kith users are good at navigation (some sort of harmony with the void/stars), Scoundrels have maybe an increased escape chance or something...)
    Anyway, I'm probably not the best to talk since I haven't played in a few days and things are changing fast.
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Member Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    Re: hoverboard; it has a similar functionality to invisibilit: aggressive mobs won't initiate an attack on you. Great if you just want to speed by that desert area ;)
    Mereas Eyrlock
    "They're excited, but poor."
    - Ilyos (August 2019)
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    bairloch said:
    Has there been a need/usefulness discovered for the Hoverboard yet? I haven't come across any elevated enemies or elevated entries/exits. No spoilers necessary, just a yes/no would be great.

    in pve, you can use it to escape aggro. Particularly in dangerous places where crashing out might just lead you running into more aggro. Also traversing zones heavy in aggro generally...

    pvp flying seems to be punished hard, so I wouldn't be very eager to try it there...
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Hoverboard is functionally like invis? What?  When did this happen?

    Shinonome said:
    Wuff said:
    Why would EM be a no-go now?
    If I remember right, something about crashing out of the room negating it and/or just being more difficult to build than other kill paths. Hopefully an experienced pvper will speak up with all the details.
    Also, if my experience with EM is accurate: I had someone shock me for a minute or two, to build up EM, and then use Gaussify. It barely did anything, if it even did anything.

    Also (just adding onto this post): I was the one that suggested a area-wide scan for the UAVs, but that was mostly grasping for something the UAVs could be useful for. Having them able to be remotely controlled, set up patrols remotely, be put on patrols and auto-report on enemies they encounter.. all these sorts of things could make them immensely more fun and useful. Even using deliver only lets you send them to people in the same area, so you may as well use a postal service.

    Being able to MOUNT the hoverboard would be cool, but might be OP against ground freezing.
  • BastianBastian Member Posts: 2 ✭
    Right now I've got:
    Make UAVs better/more useful
    Cloak the bots/reduce bot spam
    EM seems to tick down too fast to be useful
    Gaussfield(em reduction hold) could probably use an IED-like make over. I kinda don't want 50+in my inventory
    Parts don't feel great as a resource. Feels under utilized even with the changes to junkjet.
    Patrols I have mixed feelings on. Homeport is kinda important if you get separated from your bots, but drags all the UAVs to you.
    Needing to use the ID numbers for UAVs makes patrol a bit more clunky.
    While more a general change, but being able to interact with cover without need to use ID numbers when there are several of the same cover in the room. Bot Crush <Bastian> to just target the cover I'm using.

    Overall I feel the class is in a decent place and only needs some minor tweaks in my opinion.
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Have a remote method for dismantling your workstation, you get punished pretty ridiculously hard if you happen to leave it back on your home station/ship or something. Alternatively, make it so you can BOT FOCUS / BOT SENTRYMODE without needing to be in front of your workstation.
    Increase duration on gaussfield, currently with the EM route you get 2 shocks (maybe 3) before having to gaussify otherwise the EM fades pretty much instantly. With the buildup on it, this means the EM route is doing like ~14% internal damage every ~30-40 seconds or so. That is garbage. If you want to use heartbreaker you might as well just go the squash route, and let damaged muscular tick down their internals. - Alternative would be to increase the effects of magnetize.
    QoL: Have a way to cancel a repeating action. Considering the only thing really worth repeating is claw. You can't use the bot while it's repeating an action, so if you repeat claw they can pretty immediately start channeling shit like Kith Inferno to wipe your bots out or Guile Unload to just nuke you to pieces, and you can't interrupt it because the bot is 'in use'. Alternatively (but perhaps too strong) would be allowing interrupt while it's repeating, at the cost of one of the repeated attacks.
    QoL2: Increase bot health some. One inferno going through pretty much wipes out most of them. And a scoundrel can just airstrike you and fuck them all over, since bots dont benefit from cover if you're behind cover. I'm aware Inferno can be interrupted, no other class is punished this hard though considering losing bots literally loses the majority of your offence. Airstrike you pretty much have to crash the second it's used, otherwise it's going to hit your bots.

    Barring that I think Engineer doesn't need much at all. I would probably tweak their PvP damage back a notch; it's not as bad as Scoundrel/Beast but those two also need tuning back. Engineer has a lot of 'passive' damaging things that quickly rack up.
  • bairlochbairloch Member Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    @Maruna You mean just creating a new one and having the old one blow up is "punishing"? In what way?

    I usually repeat harass, it's quite nice.

    @Bastian I agree that homeport should be able to do a -uav or something syntax on it. Silly to get them all set up and then they all come running back.

    Could we name our bots? It'd be a lot easier to call them by name than random ID number. My 5 UAVs would be John, Paul, George, Ringo and Stuart.
  • MatlkaelMatlkael Member Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    There are minute differences between invisibility and levitation(hoverboard). The big one is that levitation doesn't work indoors.
    Mereas Eyrlock
    "They're excited, but poor."
    - Ilyos (August 2019)
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Maruna said:
    Have a remote method for dismantling your workstation, you get punished pretty ridiculously hard if you happen to leave it back on your home station/ship or something. 
    Bairloch kind of hinted at this but just to say it more clearly...  you can simply 'gadget construct workstation' and you'll get a new one. Your old one self destructs when you do this.

    And thanks for chiming in on the pvp side.
  • IndiIndi Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    What is the general consensus on HUD balance? I feel it is a bit slow for pvp but am not in a position to have much opinion.

    I understand that it reports a boatload of info, especially compared to suit scan, and perhaps this is at the cost of balance, but does this cost make it unusable despite how good the actual reporting is? 
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    After seeing Nanoseer's balance time on their ability (without knowing if Envelope is required or not), I am jealous.
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    The balance time for any of the classes isn't a huge deal. Scoundrel/Beast reports a crap load less than Engineer's, and theirs is still useful for their class.
  • IndiIndi Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    Right, but do you use hud at 3 seconds?
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    Yes.    
  • AristaArista Member Posts: 59 ✭✭
    I don't know enough about engineer to know what the reasoning might be for having a longer balance but can't they make their health heal operate passively? If they can save balance there, for example, compared to other classes, I can see why hud would be slower. It doesn't really need to be fast for usefulness since you mainly use it to check subsystem damage and that's not going to dramatically change in 3 seconds. 
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Arista said:
    I don't know enough about engineer to know what the reasoning might be for having a longer balance but can't they make their health heal operate passively? If they can save balance there, for example, compared to other classes, I can see why hud would be slower. It doesn't really need to be fast for usefulness since you mainly use it to check subsystem damage and that's not going to dramatically change in 3 seconds. 
    Stimjector on auto in pvp is bad, I quickly found out. Being able to use it when you want/need it, is much better when it comes to surviving damage. Beast's scan thing is 3 seconds as well, and it shows a lot less than Engineer does. Scoundrel's is the same iirc and shows similarly to Beast's.
    I don't think 3s scan is a big deal, like you said their status isn't going to rapidly change in those 3 seconds. They're all pretty good as is, and 3s scan time didn't detract me from using it. It shows you all you need to know.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • AristaArista Member Posts: 59 ✭✭
    I am not complaining about anything. I'm just speculating as to the reason it might be slower. I thought beast and scoundrel scans we're both faster though. I could be wrong.

    I know the health heal balances vary across classes, as well, though.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Resource cost is irrelevant to bring up. If you don't have the measly resources needed to use nano repair, you're doing something really wrong. Ronin's had 0 issue whatsoever in being able to use it when needed, and still keeping up offence. It'd be like moaning about not being able to use burn as a Beast: If you're out of plasma completely (it requires Low) you're doing something badly.
    Balance cost on heal isn't a big deal, it's the same as scoundrel. It's only half a second faster, that's not really going to be a deciding factor in anything. Beast's is also now the lowest-healing one of them all, after yesterday's change. So.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • ShinonomeShinonome Member Posts: 167 ✭✭✭
    Please argue about nanoseer things in the nanoseer thread. It's off topic here.
  • MarunaMaruna Member Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    Wuff said:
    If the resource cost doesn't matter then remove it. If it's not significant remove it. If there's no reason to have it then remove it. If it's not supposed to be a part of the kit and a decision that we have to make, then remove it.
    Sounds like something you should IDEA.
  • SatomiSatomi Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    I'd complain about the fact that the stimjector lasts only a week and it can decay mid-combat... but like Maruna said, it ultimately doesn't matter. I think it adds flavor/thought to the class.

    I still fully support the idea of our trans bots skill being a voltron-esque move. I would call my a Mobile Weapons Platform (NO IT IS NOT A BEAST!) :P
  • RkansasRkansas Member Posts: 136 ✭✭
    Satomi said:
    I still fully support the idea of our trans bots skill being a voltron-esque move. I would call my a Mobile Weapons Platform (NO IT IS NOT A BEAST!) :P
    Not to give away my ignorance to some things, but what is a "voltron-esque move"?
    (Scatterhome): Cal says, "We're called Scatterhome after what everybody does at the end of the night when it's time for someone to pay the bar tab."
    (Scatterhome): You say, "Which by my calculations, it's your turn to pay."
    (Scatterhome): Brantar says, "That's what my calculations have come to."
    (Scatterhome): Paavo says, "My math adds up to that, yeah."
    (Scatterhome): Cal says, "Bastards."
  • IndiIndi Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    Suittech examine is 1.5s not 3s, but it only shows limited info. Guile scan is 1s balance and also shows limited info.
    I wasn't sure what  balance the nanoseers had, nor the furies - I was comparing beast, scoundrel and engineer because those are the only classes I have any kind of experience with.

    I understand the balance vs info tradeoff. Beast examine is useful, but doesn't quite show enough, so the faster balance does make sense.

    I was just wondering why engineer has such a thorough-but-slow version. Not a complaint though - if it is still useful at 3s balance then that's great :)
  • EMDAEMDA Member Posts: 32 ✭
    For comparison's sake the Fury scan doesn't take any balance. It requires you to be in Unstoppable, which is a temporary buff that requires 80% Fury and costs 20%, and is a rage maneuver which occupies your rage attack for a 3.5s rotation and costs 10% rage by itself. It shows limited info.

    AFAIK the Nanoseer version is a 1s balance that shows your opponent's DIAGNOSE to you.
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