Experience Cap

BeepBoop

So I've been sitting at the experience cap for a few days. This is level 75 and 1576864 points of raw experience. Once you get to this amount, you literally cannot get any more experience. This poses a problem for those of us who enjoy grinding in games. Once we reach this point, one of the key draws of bashing is gone. As you are bashing while levelling up, you are getting experience, junk (i.e. marks), and drops. The risk of dying while you are bashing is that you lose experience and marks. The cloning costs act as a flat loss of the marks, but you can usually recover a large part of it back in the form of the junk that you can hopefully retrieve.

However, once you are at the experience cap this changes to bashing being marks and drops only. The risk is still the same, which is you lose experience and a large sum of marks. I think it makes sense to lift this cap, even if it doesn't do anything other than letting you store a higher amount of experience. This change would mean nothing to those who don't enjoy grinding, but would mean that those who do can continue to grind can continue to do an activity in the game that they enjoy without it feeling like the game is out to punish them if anything goes wrong, which it often does due to the difficulty of mobs at that level.

P.S. I've also been told that drops are limited per day and while I can't verify this, I hope that this is not true, and if it is, this is changed. One of the things that kills the interest of players who enjoy just grinding away after a long day is a cap on how much they can effectively play the game.

Kix

I don't think removing the cap is a good idea. It allows for a continuously larger health and stat pool.

BeepBoop

Kix said:

I don't think removing the cap is a good idea. It allows for a continuously larger health and stat pool.

We can lift the experience cap without lifting the level cap.

Eshe

What happens with XP rankings with this cap? Just a queue of 'who got 75 first and who lost their spot in death'?

BeepBoop

Eshe said:

What happens with XP rankings with this cap? Just a queue of 'who got 75 first and who lost their spot in death'?

 I have no idea as nobody else has reached that point yet, but I didn't even really consider that. 

Maruna

Kix said:

I don't think removing the cap is a good idea. It allows for a continuously larger health and stat pool.

What BeepBoop said, but also stat has a cap on how many can be invested anyway. It's pretty likely that the cap will increase down the line, Achaea's cap started out much lower than 100. With people whinging about people already being level cap it's probably a good idea they don't increase the cap for a few months at least. No harm in removing the exp cap though.

Minion

If you remove the xp cap, when they increase level cap they're going to jump directly to the next level cap?

I mean, they sprinted to the top then get to get on a treadmill at the finish line to rack up a head start at the next race. Not sure that that will help the sentiment that it was already too easy to get to max as it is.

I don't know of any MMOs that let you grind up extra xp for the next expansion. They may be out there, I just don't know. If you're looking to grind, grind for gear... grind the ship system or hacking. Grind the economy and buy yourself a superhauler while the rest of us fly our mosquitoes. 

I'm sorry if I don't sound like I have any sympathy. I don't.

Maruna

Or just reset the 'overgain' to 0 before increasing the cap. Will it piss some people off who lose their rank? Maybe, but it's better than boosting people ahead instantly.

BeepBoop

I don't particularly care what happens after they increase the level cap. Could reset the exp back to 0 entirely. Keep in mind that if the level cap is only raised slightly then people will probably reach that cap very quickly anyway. 

Crorr

I'd aim for a spot midway between 75 and 76 myself, just so that a single (or a few) death(s) doesn't drop people to 74 when they'd had a buffer zone before.

Minion

To be honest, allowing overgain just further limits who is going to get to max level. If the top people are grinding the top 15 levels worth of areas to increase a number that essentially means nothing, those areas that people are already complaining about being too small or too sparce are going to be even worse for those coming up. Which further slows their grind.

EDIT TO ADD: This is why MMO's instance the grinding areas and don't allow overgain. They insist you either grind for other things or start another character's grind.

BeepBoop

We have to grind anyway, for those mythical mod drops. That is not a problem with the grinders, but the fact that respawns are still so slow in many areas.

Kix

BeepBoop said:

Kix said:

I don't think removing the cap is a good idea. It allows for a continuously larger health and stat pool.

We can lift the experience cap without lifting the level cap.

You're right. I misread.

Minion

Crorr said:

I'd aim for a spot midway between 75 and 76 myself, just so that a single (or a few) death(s) doesn't drop people to 74 when they'd had a buffer zone before.

I don't understand this line of reasoning either. There's risk in the grind but barely. You can get your INR back with some quick reaction time, it doesn't lock anyone out of the area by losing a small amount of a level... I see it as part of the game. You go grind for gear, you risk losing a level. Adds excitement!

Maruna

Minion said:

EDIT TO ADD: This is why MMO's instance the grinding areas and don't allow overgain. They insist you either grind for other things or start another character's grind.

Plenty of MMOs have a different form of power to grind past level cap. Artifact Power in WoW, for instance. Alternate Advancement points in Everquest. FF14 has Eureka.

All of these get 'reset' on a new expansion (Artifact Power; AA in EQ doesn't really, it just builds over to the next one, but the point stands). Or they get made useless (like Eureka, unless you're a completionist). No reason they can't remove the experience cap for people who really like having highest rank. Then reset the overgain when the level cap's increased.

Guild Wars 2 is probably like one of the few exceptions to this rule.

Minion

Maruna said:

Minion said:

EDIT TO ADD: This is why MMO's instance the grinding areas and don't allow overgain. They insist you either grind for other things or start another character's grind.

Plenty of MMOs have a different form of power to grind past level cap. Artifact Power in WoW, for instance. Alternate Advancement points in Everquest. FF14 has Eureka.

All of these get 'reset' on a new expansion (Artifact Power; AA in EQ doesn't really, it just builds over to the next one, but the point stands). Or they get made useless (like Eureka, unless you're a completionist). No reason they can't remove the experience cap for people who really like having highest rank. Then reset the overgain when the level cap's increased.

Guild Wars 2 is probably like one of the few exceptions to this rule.

 While I do understand this, those are seperate systems within leveling, not actual XP. I mean I don't really care about overgain itself, I just don't see a positive about it beyond pride at this point. When SM gets an endgame, that's perfectly fine. By all means, overgain all you want. 

Right now, my main concern is that just gives another reason for the people at top ranks to clear out the level cap hunting areas when others are trying to reach the same point.

ekary

75 is not the level cap. There will be more levels, remember the game is in beta right now. If you lift the XP cap then you are just going to lose all your XP when the cap increases.

Pollivar

To clarify, BeepBoop has this strange mindset where they don't mind as long as their number is going up, even if they take away all of the number at the end. He wouldn't care if, when the level cap went to, say, 80, if they reset all his XP and put him to 75.01 again, as long as he can continue watcing his XP number go up NOW.

Arlixa

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

Minion

ekary said:

75 is not the level cap. There will be more levels, remember the game is in beta right now. If you lift the XP cap then you are just going to lose all your XP when the cap increases.

Well aware of that, yes. 

My point about hunting areas stands as is.

I also feel like there are more important things to focus on than giving the top few more things to grind. Like putting classes on somewhat even grounds or the many bugs that are inevitable in Beta.

BeepBoop

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

Actually, not raising the cap does this. Right now I'm at max, so effectively if I die I lose nothing if I just give my INR to someone else since I can just get that exp back and be back where I was. There is just no incentive for me to scan my own INR now. 

Again, they could reset the exp at the end so people don't get a "head start".

Minion

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

While the headstart thing would be moot if they reset them back to 0, the INR thing actually brings up an interesting point. Is the amount that an INR gives to a player that picks up someone else's based on total xp of the dead clone or based on a percentage of level?

EDIT: Not 0 xp, but 0 overgain.

Arlixa

BeepBoop said:

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

Actually, not raising the cap does this. Right now I'm at max, so effectively if I die I lose nothing if I just give my INR to someone else since I can just get that exp back and be back where I was. There is just no incentive for me to scan my own INR now. 

Again, they could reset the exp at the end so people don't get a "head start".

If the cap was raised you could save up more overflow to go on, say, a cosmpiercer rampage where you died 25 times, and not feel it. Or a raid. You'd be completely without any sort of drawback to going ballistic immortal mode because you'd be that guy who went off for a year and gained 9001% the exp level cap. (besides marks anyway)

I disagree.

BeepBoop

Arlixa said:

BeepBoop said:

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

Actually, not raising the cap does this. Right now I'm at max, so effectively if I die I lose nothing if I just give my INR to someone else since I can just get that exp back and be back where I was. There is just no incentive for me to scan my own INR now. 

Again, they could reset the exp at the end so people don't get a "head start".

If the cap was raised you could save up more overflow to go on, say, a cosmpiercer rampage where you died 25 times, and not feel it. Or a raid. You'd be completely without any sort of drawback to going ballistic immortal mode because you'd be that guy who went off for a year and gained 9001% the exp level cap. (besides marks anyway)

I disagree.

At 1875 marks a clone I'm going to feel the deaths a lot more because of my mark balance than because of my experience total, even with the current cap. Going back down to 0% just gives me more incentive to go grinding even more again, rather than making me think I need to hoard my INRs.

Arlixa

Minion said:

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

While the headstart thing would be moot if they reset them back to 0, the INR thing actually brings up an interesting point. Is the amount that an INR gives to a player that picks up someone else's based on total xp of the dead clone or based on a percentage of level?

EDIT: Not 0 xp, but 0 overgain.

Percentage of XP to next level.

Right now my INR gives someone about 30k exp (if it's the same for others as it is for me).

BeepBoop

Arlixa said:

Minion said:

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

While the headstart thing would be moot if they reset them back to 0, the INR thing actually brings up an interesting point. Is the amount that an INR gives to a player that picks up someone else's based on total xp of the dead clone or based on a percentage of level?

EDIT: Not 0 xp, but 0 overgain.

Percentage of XP to next level.

Right now my INR gives someone about 30k exp (if it's the same for others as it is for me).

Nope. Other people get like 2k from mine. You only get a fraction of the experience if you scan someone else's INR.

Arlixa

BeepBoop said:

Arlixa said:

BeepBoop said:

Arlixa said:

Raising the cap would lead to some silly tricks with dying and passing your INR on to newbies.

It would also give you a headstart for if they ever do raise the level cap. I don't know if this is a bad thing!

Actually, not raising the cap does this. Right now I'm at max, so effectively if I die I lose nothing if I just give my INR to someone else since I can just get that exp back and be back where I was. There is just no incentive for me to scan my own INR now. 

Again, they could reset the exp at the end so people don't get a "head start".

If the cap was raised you could save up more overflow to go on, say, a cosmpiercer rampage where you died 25 times, and not feel it. Or a raid. You'd be completely without any sort of drawback to going ballistic immortal mode because you'd be that guy who went off for a year and gained 9001% the exp level cap. (besides marks anyway)

I disagree.

At 1875 marks a clone I'm going to feel the deaths a lot more because of my mark balance than because of my experience total, even with the current cap. Going back down to 0% just gives me more incentive to go grinding even more again, rather than making me think I need to hoard my INRs.

Then marks can be considered the excess numbers you seek.

Just replace your XP bar with a Marks bar client side!

BeepBoop

And how do you resolve the fact that INRs are meaningless for someone at the xp cap, and that rankings are also meaningless when someone can just get #1 and then never do anything that could make them lose it?

Minion

BeepBoop said:

And how do you resolve the fact that INRs are meaningless for someone at the xp cap, and that rankings are also meaningless when someone can just get #1 and then never do anything that could make them lose it?

Why do we need to resolve it?

Rankings are primarily a pissing contest for grinding. We aren't at true level cap yet and don't know what endgame is going to look like. Right now, being in beta, the focus should be on making the game the best it can be for the future, not stroking egos.

BeepBoop

If it isn't intended to matter why do we have any rankings at all?

Minion

Minion said:

BeepBoop said:

And how do you resolve the fact that INRs are meaningless for someone at the xp cap, and that rankings are also meaningless when someone can just get #1 and then never do anything that could make them lose it?

Why do we need to resolve it?

Rankings are primarily a pissing contest for grinding. We aren't at true level cap yet and don't know what endgame is going to look like. Right now, being in beta, the focus should be on making the game the best it can be for the future, not stroking egos.