[Fury] Let's talk about the rage attack window...

Izrith

I feel that it's way, WAY too short. Often times I won't even be able to get one off if I'm typing manually (yes, I'm a crazy who still does this sometimes), and I type REALLY fast. I get that the COMBO command is supposed to be the answer to this...but I don't think it solves the problem completely.
If you've played IRE combat before, then you'll know that who has the advantage in a fight can change VERY quickly, and being unable to adapt on the fly because the rage window is so short feels limiting. For example, say that you use a COMBO attack depending on the rage attack to take advantage of an ailment, and then your opponent cures that ailment part-way through; wouldn't you prefer to switch the rage attack to something more useful? I would. But you currently can't because the window is so short.

I would much rather see the rage attack window simply removed. Allow one rage attack when you enter a stance, and leave the window open for as long as you normally sit in a stance.

Maruna

I mean they make the disclaimer in HELP FURY that it's not meant to be an easy class. I think removing the window would actually very heavily lower the amount of effort needed to play it well. If anything the window should really last until you recover balance.

Izrith said:

But you currently can't because the window is so short.

You can already send another rage attack while off balance, before the previous one goes through (as a means to cancel out the original input) So if you do combo wound flyingcut Maruna... You could send rage rend maruna instead afterwards and it'll cancel out the flyingcut. I don't find it to be a big deal beyond that, you have 2 full seconds to change it before your stance changes and then another second afterwards. That's not any shorter than other games give you for decisions.

Tye

I agree with what you're saying.

I think this could alternatively be solved by moving the stance change (and therefore rage window) closer to the battle flow ability.

Izrith

Maruna said:

I mean they make the disclaimer in HELP FURY that it's not meant to be an easy class. I think removing the window would actually very heavily lower the amount of effort needed to play it well. If anything the window should really last until you recover balance.

Izrith said:

But you currently can't because the window is so short.

You can already send another rage attack while off balance, before the previous one goes through (as a means to cancel out the original input) So if you do combo wound flyingcut Maruna... You could send rage rend maruna instead afterwards and it'll cancel out the flyingcut. I don't find it to be a big deal beyond that, you have 2 full seconds to change it before your stance changes and then another second afterwards. That's not any shorter than other games give you for decisions.

Even if it were just extended to until balance is recovered would be enough. As for the effort required to play the class...I would argue that there is little effort required and depends heavily on how fast your reactions are. In that light, I think it would be far better to extend the Rage attack window, perhaps up until you recover balance after the Battleflow attack as you suggested.

Additionally, while it is not the crux of this argument, I would not be against either lowering the difficulty of Fury or increasing the difficulty of other classes to achieve a level of parity in effort required, particularly given that Fury has a huge amount of lesson gates to important abilities that other classes do not, and currently are not as effective as other classes in either PvE or PvP (BEAST is king right now).

Maruna

Izrith said:

Even if it were just extended to until balance is recovered would be enough. As for the effort required to play the class...I would argue that there is little effort required and depends heavily on how fast your reactions are. In that light, I think it would be far better to extend the Rage attack window, perhaps up until you recover balance after the Battleflow attack as you suggested.

Two issues here. 1) To make a comparison... Street fighter is all about reactions, and competing at a high level there requires a lot more knowledge and effort than practically any other game in existence, except maybe Chess. 2) Your initial post contradicts Fury requiring 'little effort' - if you're having to adapt to what they cure, then you're indeed requiring effort.

Additionally, while it is not the crux of this argument, I would not be against either lowering the difficulty of Fury or increasing the difficulty of other classes to achieve a level of parity in effort required, particularly given that Fury has a huge amount of lesson gates to important abilities that other classes do not, and currently are not as effective as other classes in either PvE or PvP (BEAST is king right now).

Parity makes things boring. There should be classes that stand out as being harder, for those who want a challenge. I don't think Fury has any more lesson gates than any other class does. You can't judge PvP capability based off of people being level 20-35 on average. Fury is also perfectly fine for PvE.

Maruna

Two issues with the first statement.

   1) To draw a comparison, Street Fighter is almost entirely reaction-based (prediction based, as well, quite similar to IRE combat) and competing at any competent level there is objectively harder than any other game out there except maybe Chess (which isn't really reactionary).

   2) Your initial post contradicts Fury taking little effort. If you're having to readjust your attacks/tactics on the fly because of what your opponent's doing, you're indeed expending effort to keep them down. Your comment about other classes not having nearly as much effort required supports that.
That said, you alluded to other IRE games being fast paced. Fury, as it stands, is slower than other games except for Lusternia (Like 85% of classes in those games at least). Curing is also much slower, thus requiring even less reaction speed to keep up.

Second part. Parity sucks, plain and simple. Making all classes equally challenge/simplistic, or equally good at both PvE/PvP is how you get dead games like Lusternia (disregarding their toxic playerbase). There should always be something that stands out as harder for those who want a challenge, just like there should be something easy to cater to the less difficulty-focused people. Fury's also perfectly fine; you can't judge PvP when your average person is between level 20-35, and still barely knows how to fight properly.

In conclusion, people need to get more levels/gear before trying to make assessments on what's good/bad in either area to be completely honest.

Maruna

Two issues with the first statement.

   1) To draw a comparison, Street Fighter is almost entirely reaction-based (prediction based, as well, quite similar to IRE combat) and competing at any competent level there is objectively harder than any other game out there except maybe Chess (which isn't really reactionary).

   2) Your initial post contradicts Fury taking little effort. If you're having to readjust your attacks/tactics on the fly because of what your opponent's doing, you're indeed expending effort to keep them down. Your comment about other classes not having nearly as much effort required supports that.
That said, you alluded to other IRE games being fast paced. Fury, as it stands, is slower than other games except for Lusternia (Like 85% of classes in those games at least). Curing is also much slower, thus requiring even less reaction speed to keep up.

Second part. Parity sucks, plain and simple. Making all classes equally challenge/simplistic, or equally good at both PvE/PvP is how you get dead games like Lusternia (disregarding their toxic playerbase). There should always be something that stands out as harder for those who want a challenge, just like there should be something easy to cater to the less difficulty-focused people. Fury's also perfectly fine; you can't judge PvP when your average person is between level 20-35, and still barely knows how to fight properly.

More levels are gonna be needed before being able to gauge what's good/bad/lacking in both PvE and PvP.

Azlyn

I imagine it may be by design that you cannot send a rage attack and a battleflow attack simultaneously, hence your rage window is shorter than balance recovery permits.

Arista

You also can't actually see when your opponent cures afflictions, unless that changed, so I'm not sure you'd ever have to change attacks on that basis. There are some other things that might make you want to quick change, but it's fine for that as is with the automatic rage queueing.