Leadership Roles

Xiru

I'm stealing this from someone during the 700+ messages in Discord I skimmed through after watching Michigan beat Florida (Hail to the victors!) and asking how leadership roles in civilizations will be handled to start the game. NPC held? Will players be able to run? What sort of organizations will be in place?

Sairys

The comments in the blog about Scatterhome indicate to me that the Dominion and Ascendancy will likely have something similar to the other games. So elected councils and ministries that run stuff.

Because of the descriptions of the orgs, I don't think it would happen, but this could still be "npc run" in that ultimate power in an organisation is invested in an rpg ICly but functionally the player council is actually in charge.
(I think MKO did this, i.e Aglaranna the elf queen was in charge of Elvandar but the councillors were really running things)

Scatterhome has been noted as not having this, but it's a selling point for IRE games so I doubt it'd be absent, but also I believe it's been mentioned on the forums that we won't have guild equivalents just clans that we can build.


The question for me is, if Scatterhome won't have leaders how will they manage the aspects of an org that typically require them? The big ones being ministry appointments and expansions.

For ministries:

• Trade manages commodity shops and stock piles in case they're needed.
  
• Steward and Treasury manage the money of the organisation.
• Chancellors the shops.
• Cultural Affairs the arena and games.
• Ambassador looks after newbies.
• War/Security for managing the defences. 

 
For expansions, the councils can make requests for new stuff for the orgs they run. New rooms, special progs (I've seen teleports and objects that can do room echoes for people with permission), artifact type stuff, customisations of some stuff. 

It's just... a lot of potential stuff to do without if it's just not there and it's stuff that I wouldn't expect the admin to step in and take care of.

Pollivar

They said that Scatterhome would be 'experimental', so I'd actually be surprised if it had any kind of ruling council.

Sairys

Pollivar said:

They said that Scatterhome would be 'experimental', so I'd actually be surprised if it had any kind of ruling council.

Yes, the blog mentioned that it wouldn't really be run by players (here) and there would be downsides in balance to the upside, which is why the question arises.

With the status quo in IRE, just subtracting a ruling council would typically mean the org has just lost:

• the ability to request expansions to their home. (Hallifax in Lusternia, for example, got a neat information kiosk that teleports people to different towers in the city)
• the ability to organise player shops/housing (to varying degrees)
• guards or defensive capabilities (outside players, of course). 
• Arena control (if they can get one because they can't pay for it and no one's authorised to request it)
• Lusternians wouldn't be able to raise ascendants.
• Aetolians wouldn't be able to do ylem research.

It's an interesting proposition because it goes against how organisations have really functioned in IRE for over  a decade now.

But also, the people wanting to play there probably don't want it to just be that there's no council and that's it.

Also, whatever the solution is would need to account for player alliances (i.e the slumlord clan might not be able to kick you out but if numbers equal power over Scatterhome they could build up to a point where they just control things)

Aurelius

What Scatterhome will be is still in limbo.

Wilmer

Less jurisdiction is better in the case of Scatterhome, in my mind.  I'm interested to see how much of that 'necessary' jurisdiction can be doled out to NPCs, which I think will also generally contribute to the ambiance intended by Scatterhome.

Aurelius

The trouble with less jurisdiction is that means the Org either gets less services or the admin have to spend more time on it, which is a costly commitment to make. We'll see what we decide on!

Sagex

I just want my pent house overlooking the masses on the Celestine Ascendecy 

Sairys

Wilmer said:

Less jurisdiction is better in the case of Scatterhome, in my mind.  I'm interested to see how much of that 'necessary' jurisdiction can be doled out to NPCs, which I think will also generally contribute to the ambiance intended by Scatterhome.

I feel the question here is what you mean by doled out to NPCs?

It seems like it's either asking for automation to be built for Scatterhome or for the Admin to take on the day to day management of the org.

Wilmer

I mean automation where possible.  Where impossible, well, nothing changes.  No, I'm not calling for the admins to micromanage the city, I appreciate their attention elsewhere.

Oogah_Chakha

Aurelius said:

The trouble with less jurisdiction is that means the Org either gets less services or the admin have to spend more time on it, which is a costly commitment to make. We'll see what we decide on!

@Aurelius

Scatterhome could function like MKO's Krondor, with NPC King and Prince ruling the city but Barons and the ministries overseeing the daily tasks.

Sairys

Wilmer said:

I mean automation where possible.  Where impossible, well, nothing changes.  No, I'm not calling for the admins to micromanage the city, I appreciate their attention elsewhere.

At a guess... Shop renting (auctions + auto repossessions), arenas (queues), comm shops (possibly some automatic raising and lowering of prices based on supply/demand), and guard placements (static, respawning if there's enough money) could be automated.

And then yeah, nothing changes could then mean Scatterhome is otherwise static unless the admins decide to make some changes.

Oogah_Chakha said:

Aurelius said:

The trouble with less jurisdiction is that means the Org either gets less services or the admin have to spend more time on it, which is a costly commitment to make. We'll see what we decide on!

@Aurelius

Scatterhome could function like MKO's Krondor, with NPC King and Prince ruling the city but Barons and the ministries overseeing the daily tasks.

That's the standard for IRE leadership really, it's just whether or not there's a power above the council and what exactly they are. And the type of leadership it seems Scatterhome is hoping to avoid.



The idea that's been kicking around in my head with Scatterhome is like... a clan battleground. Some sort of mechanic where clans can align themselves with Scatterhome and then fight over control of different aspects it which could correlate with the different typical ministries.

How exactly they might do that is a question. Fighting, throwing marks around, something like a revolt from lusternia. Maybe even something different for each section. But once they've seized control of that part of Scatterhome they could appoint one of their clan members to run it.

They wouldn't be able to kick people out, might be a regular thing that forces them to fight for control of their territory. Potentially some limiters built in that prevent any clan from owning too much territory.

It's not without power over other players, but ideally the power would be limited and if you don't like a group you could build up your own clan to take your own part of the org, perhaps even steal away part of their territory.

Zion

You mean like in real life with gangs. That would be pretty cool. 

Groot

I am Groot
(I see Scatterhome less as a single organization and more as a confederacy or weak confederation. Rather than having a central government that rules with different departments there would a loose alliance of different states (meteors or meteor clusters) that would band together against an outside force but would still have inner conflict and a multitude of cultures and ideas contained inside. While there might be a central government, it would only be for core reasons like defense, trading agreements, and currency.

While I could be wrong, this could be one way it could grow. So rather than having Ministers that rule over all of Scatterhome, you'd have a few top officals (War, Trade) and the rest would be left into individual councils or groups that would rule)

Sairys

Groot said:

I am Groot
(I see Scatterhome less as a single organization and more as a confederacy or weak confederation. Rather than having a central government that rules with different departments there would a loose alliance of different states (meteors or meteor clusters) that would band together against an outside force but would still have inner conflict and a multitude of cultures and ideas contained inside. While there might be a central government, it would only be for core reasons like defense, trading agreements, and currency.

While I could be wrong, this could be one way it could grow. So rather than having Ministers that rule over all of Scatterhome, you'd have a few top officals (War, Trade) and the rest would be left into individual councils or groups that would rule)

I guess my mind is coming more to the Wretched Hive trope is all. 

Like security is run by the private firm on Marle, there are notes on the cutthroat politics between the family clans on Bodean.


Instead of a direct link between ministry and claim in the "clan war". Also thought maybe it gives control over different sections of the city, so their shops, homes, other features, responsibility for organising guards.

Could enable people to build their "brighter future for Scatterhome" type clans and compete with the "Gimmie yo marks" gangs