balancing "aggressively malfunctioning drone" mobs

Shinonome

When you look at a mob, you are given an approximate estimate of the mobs strength. In Song's undercity, the "aggressively malfunctioning drone" is far, far stronger than the security robots patrolling the same area, yet they rate the same on the relative Strength scale.

The strength rating of malfunctioning drones should, IMO, be increased.

Also, it would be nice if the experience reward for killing them was also commensurate to the effort required to take one down, as currently the effort involved is more akin to taking on a level 15 or 20 mob, but the experience reward is tuned as if it's a level 10 mob.

Minei

Same with the windmill drones, the game tells you that you can go there to bash at 10 but even now at 15 I don't feel confident going back because they absolutely murder you with their one attack. Unless the intent is to crash out each time but it doesn't seem feasible.

Shinonome

Minei said:

Same with the windmill drones, the game tells you that you can go there to bash at 10 but even now at 15 I don't feel confident going back because they absolutely murder you with their one attack. Unless the intent is to crash out each time but it doesn't seem feasible.

The intent for that mob is for you to interrupt their wind up attack. They're a lot easier if you do that. (The game could definitely do with telling you that, though...)

aggressively malfunctioning drones have no such mechanic.

bairloch

Level up, fight aggressive drone, die.
Nope, still can't kill it.
Do a bunch of other stuff.
Level up, fight aggressive drone, die.
Nope, still can't kill it.
Do a bunch of other stuff.
Level up, fight aggressive drone, win.
Ah, there we go.

I don't think there's a need to make it any more complicated. The challenge ratings are calculated, and at low levels there's very little granularity so it is hard to have "stronger than you" not be a wide range. There's just too little to work with.

Cubey

Mob strength is calculated as simple level comparison delivered in groups of 5. If one mob is level 11 and another is 15, the game will tell you they're the same strength.

Really though, wouldn't be the first time a mob in an IRE game is stronger than it seems. Not the last time either. My suggested solution is, invest more in lifeforce for that sweet HP.

Shinonome

bairloch said:

Level up, fight aggressive drone, die.
Nope, still can't kill it.
Do a bunch of other stuff.
Level up, fight aggressive drone, die.
Nope, still can't kill it.
Do a bunch of other stuff.
Level up, fight aggressive drone, win.
Ah, there we go.

This would be fine if the experience reward was commensurate to the challenge.

Otherwise the final step is:
Yay you killed it, now go fight stuff that's easier but gives more experience.

Minion

Also, there is likely a solid affliction route that would make it easier to handle. Again approaching hunting here one dimensionally is not going to be as effective.

Shinonome

Minion said:

Also, there is likely a solid affliction route that would make it easier to handle. Again approaching hunting here one dimensionally is not going to be as effective.

This doesn't mean it shouldn't be balanced.

Fighting other monsters also includes a class's CC as a baseline for how easy or difficult it may be.

bairloch

My point was, this is a calculated metric, and at these low levels, it will always be vaguely accurate. There isn't just a title they give to this mob of "stronger than you" or "way stronger than you". They'd have to code in some exception for this one bot or modify their calculation. It just isn't worth the effort for them when it will only effect you for (if you're a serious grinder) a few hours.

Shinonome

bairloch said:

It just isn't worth the effort for them when it will only effect you for (if you're a serious grinder) a few hours.

If it was only me, sure. I'm well past the drones. But I've had friends run into them, and they do carefully check what they're fighting before they attack. And judging from the death notices, it's affecting a lot of others as well.

bairloch

once per level, sure. unless they're oddly stubborn.

Shinonome

Nonetheless, I think it's fair for the game to give an appropriate warning of the mobs strength (particularly when a player goes out of their way to look for it), and it would be balanced to appropriate reward success.

If you say we might as well ignore this mob, then why not ignore every mob that's poorly tuned? Why balance things at all?

Maruna

Using your healing ability helps a lot as well. I've taken on the drones since I was level 12, and haven't had any real issue with them. Stat build helps, too. Compared to the security bots, sure, they're strong. But they're not exactly overpowered when you learn to manage them properly. If you start fighting them at any less than like ~85% hp you're gonna have a bad time. I don't think that's inherently a bad thing; the game isn't meant to be a race to max level.

bairloch

So @Shinonome , you're saying the bot should be tuned, not the probe/difficulty system? Oh, sorry. Misread you. I'm fine with that, of course. Though I think we'd then need another bot added to fill the top end of this bot's current challenge tier.

Uachet

It is a bad thing if probe gives the impression a mob is weaker or stronger than what it actually is. It is also a bad thing if the experience given does not reflect the difficulty of the mob. You add those both together, and what you end up with are mobs that become over or under hunted unless they are needed for quests.

Why kill a mob A that probes as even in strength to you and gives you 2% experience, but nearly kills you each time, when you can hunt mob B with the same probe and experience reward, but is a lot easier to kill?

Minion

If underhunting is your concern, that is beyond me. If you are expecting Starmourn to play like WoW where every mob is standardized for convenience, I certainly hope that we never get to that point. I like the mystery to knowinf what I can and cannot take on. Mostly, though, I like trying to figure out the strategies that go beyond a one button grind.

EDIT: To clarify, if it really does need looked at I have no issues with it. I don't want to see knee jerk reactions when SM is a very different take on hunting in MUDs.

Uachet

SM is not a very different take on hunting mobs. It plays like an LPMud when it comes to hunting mobs. So if you have not played any of them, I guess you would think it is something new. LPMuds allow you to use all of your abilities to attack mobs, they also have consider as a skill that allows you to determine the strength of a mob with greater accuracy the more you train it up. Consider is pretty much probe when used on mobs. So throwing out WoW like some curse was a waste of time, when there are older muds with pve combat similar to Starmourn's.  

Your desire for guessing can easily be accomplished by you not using probe. Still the risk should equal the reward. If it does not, then most prudent people will avoid the risk. There is nothing to be gained in fighting mobs that can nearly kill you for the same experience gained fighting mobs that are easy to handle.

Quell

I started taking them on at 11. Didn't notice them being especially harder than the rats and tentacles I'd been grinding up until then.

Aither

Minion said:

If underhunting is your concern, that is beyond me. If you are expecting Starmourn to play like WoW where every mob is standardized for convenience, I certainly hope that we never get to that point. I like the mystery to knowinf what I can and cannot take on. Mostly, though, I like trying to figure out the strategies that go beyond a one button grind.

EDIT: To clarify, if it really does need looked at I have no issues with it. I don't want to see knee jerk reactions when SM is a very different take on hunting in MUDs.

Why would any sensible person hunt a mob that does 4x the damage and gives about 10% more exp than the other mobs in the same area? Outside of running out of other things to kill and being desperate, it's a complete waste of your time.

Anonymous

I feel like the Nightstalkers in the Swamp are like this. 20-30 zone. I am 31, I still can't take on the Nightstalkers. Coroxons in the swamp were hard when I first hit 20, but as long as I stood my ground, I'd survive and kill them. I figured maybe Nightstalkers were for closer to 30, but nope.