Death penalty

Cubey

The exp penalty for dying seems okay the way it is now - we'll see how it's like on higher levels but for now, acceptable.

What's this about having to pay for clones though? That eats into my ingame cash reserves a lot, and the fact the game keeps count of your deaths and makes each clone more costly doesn't help. That 400 marks or whatever per kill won't matter much once we get actual sources of income running, but for now that's really punishing.

Any chance to lower the death penalty or at least make the death count reset faster (if it resets at all)?

Matlkael

My suggestion is to peg re-cloning costs to level, rather than # of times one has died! I really have never been bothered with kill:death ratios (or with deaths, for the most part) in any of the games I've played, and I don't want to start now

Tecton

Just for the record, cloning doesn't get more expensive when you die, that number is just for your own amusement. It does, however, scale on your level. 

As for the cost itself, it will likely need tweaks, like pretty much everything. Now that we're getting a lot of "real world" data about mark generation from the usage of a lot of players, we can adjust the prices to be more fitting. 

Cubey

Matlkael said:

My suggestion is to peg re-cloning costs to level, rather than # of times one has died! I really have never been bothered with kill:death ratios (or with deaths, for the most part) in any of the games I've played, and I don't want to start now

The game kinda does that in that you don't have to pay for clones if you're on level 10 or below, but it still counts kills and increases costs for future clones.

And yeah, I know there are ways to get around the penalty (usually the Dark Souls way: can't lose what you don't have) but I don't think that's the intended solution here.

Matlkael

Damn, I'll probably get my clone # to well in the thousands, then! 

Eiphy

It would be cool if there was a mobile rez skill in exploration. Maybe have it require equipment. I can imagine a whole economy around medical services to avoid cloning fees. Make cloning then an active choice and let people sit with broken bodies but mindsim/communication active to hire a rez.

Could even code in a work order system, but that's probably a lot of work.

Cubey

Tecton said:

Just for the record, cloning doesn't get more expensive when you die, that number is just for your own amusement. It does, however, scale on your level. 

As for the cost itself, it will likely need tweaks, like pretty much everything. Now that we're getting a lot of "real world" data about mark generation from the usage of a lot of players, we can adjust the prices to be more fitting. 

That's cool. You cool.

Jinresh

Eiphy said:

It would be cool if there was a mobile rez skill in exploration. Maybe have it require equipment. I can imagine a whole economy around medical services to avoid cloning fees. Make cloning then an active choice and let people sit with broken bodies but mindsim/communication active to hire a rez.

Could even code in a work order system, but that's probably a lot of work.

I believe Engineers have a rez skill already.

Matlkael

One of the more pressing concerns I have seen is the issue of farming. @Lochlioc, for example, had set his clone at Reynolds Station -- where, on repeat, he was killed and killed again by Scatterhome players, and he could not do much about it other than just keep dying.

Eshe

Being able to greenlight cloning facilities/intentionally block ourselves from using them with the autoclone function would be really helpful. Perhaps have it be automatic to start, have to manually set yourself to a facility in enemy territory/an opposing faction. 

Victoria

What happens when you can't pay, anyway?

Nusrizan

Matlkael said:

One of the more pressing concerns I have seen is the issue of farming. @Lochlioc, for example, had set his clone at Reynolds Station -- where, on repeat, he was killed and killed again by Scatterhome players, and he could not do much about it other than just keep dying.

I was going to say the same thing. Yes, I think the cloning facilities need to be set to Safe Area.

Teotwauki

Perhaps the ability to CLONING FACILITY RESET to set your cloning facility back to your Homeworld/Omni for neutral players. Or impliment a warranty period on your clone, if it gets killed in the first 60 seconds you get your second clone FREE!

I like the second idea, sounds like a cool gimicky capitalist IC system.

snailbee

Jinresh said:

I believe Engineers have a rez skill already.

Bugged at the moment.

You get resurrected but the clone machine still transports you away (along with anyone following you) on top of deducting the standard cloning fee.

Cubey

Socksy said:

What happens when you can't pay, anyway?

You lose only as much cash as you had on hand and nothing more. Hence the Dark Souls approach - souls always burn a hole in your pocket so it's better to spend them at earliest opportunity than to wait until you die and lose them.

Yalau

What if I transfer my marks to cargo account and never carry any on me?

snailbee

Cubey said:

You lose only as much cash as you had on hand and nothing more. Hence the Dark Souls approach - souls always burn a hole in your pocket so it's better to spend them at earliest opportunity than to wait until you die and lose them.

Nothing stopping you from transferring all your marks away right before you die and then having them sent back to you.

bairloch

Yalau said:

What if I transfer my marks to cargo account and never carry any on me?

I believe you go in the red and it is taken out when available.

Cubey

snailbee said:

Nothing stopping you from transferring all your marks away right before you die and then having them sent back to you.

Not the point. I have tricks to make sure I don't lose money (no ban plz) and because of that I never lost more than 100-200 marks per death - but once again I doubt that's the intended solution to the problem here.

snailbee

Cubey said:

snailbee said:

Nothing stopping you from transferring all your marks away right before you die and then having them sent back to you.

Not the point. I have tricks to make sure I don't lose money (no ban plz) and because of that I never lost more than 100-200 marks per death - but once again I doubt that's the intended solution to the problem here.

My point is that if players are actively looking for loopholes around the cloning fee, then either the cloning fee is too high or all loopholes should be closed (going into the red if you don't have enough money to cover, temporary loans that are taken out with a predatory company, etc.).

In other IRE muds, gold on hand is dropped, but money is not actively taken out of your bank account.

Indi

In other IRE muds gold is safe if it is in a bag. Doesn't need to be a bank.

Eiphy

The cloning fee is really high. I died three times and it cost half my gold. This heavily discourages risky exploration, ambitious hunting, space travel and PK (ie the exciting parts of the MUD).

bairloch

I seem to be perpetually the voice of the opposition.
I am fine with a punitive fee. Death should hurt.

Eiphy

This is a game, not a job. If I can't ever get a foothold and have to grind constantly to afford to play the rest of the game, I'll lose interest, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

Minion

I imagine we will need to be patient as they find balance.

Tye

I've died once in ~10 hours of gameplay. Pay more attention and you won't have to pay cloning fees.

bairloch

And games should have challenge. No challenge, no fun.

Cubey

Tye said:

I've died once in ~10 hours of gameplay. Pay more attention and you won't have to pay cloning fees.

I take it you neither PvPed nor explored and stuck only to newbie zones that other players already declared safe for you.

bairloch said:

And games should have challenge. No challenge, no fun.

Challenge != punishment for dying. In fact, you want players to be more daring to tackle challenges? Lower penalties for dying. If they're too high, they will stick to safe zones because the risk is just not worth the reward. Not to mention pvp basically fucking dies except for griefers jumping much weaker people when they're sure they can get away with it.

Speaking of which, the harsher the penalties for dying, the more griefing you'll see because people will know they can really make you hurt with only a single death. In the meantime, smart jackasses like myself escape consequences and only the inexperienced or honest players suffer. You want Starmourn to look like this?

bairloch

Do not project your gameplay and preferences upon others. Dying and the cost of dying has not and will not stop me from exploring. I go more slowly, sure. But it does not stop me. And I'm sure I am not the only one.

I can not speak to PvP, as I don't do it.

Matlkael

Projection goes both ways. It's your gameplay and preference to have punitive consequences; it's not for others. 

Jinresh

Cubey said:

Challenge != punishment for dying. In fact, you want players to be more daring to tackle challenges? Lower penalties for dying. If they're too high, they will stick to safe zones because the risk is just not worth the reward. Not to mention pvp basically fucking dies except for griefers jumping much weaker people when they're sure they can get away with it.

Speaking of which, the harsher the penalties for dying, the more griefing you'll see because people will know they can really make you hurt with only a single death. In the meantime, smart jackasses like myself escape consequences and only the inexperienced or honest players suffer. You want Starmourn to look like this?

I think your definition of "challenge" has some holes in it. If you lower the penalties for dying, doesn't that make it no longer a "challenge"? I tend to equate challenge with the chance of failure; greater the chance of failure, the greater the challenge. So yes, I think it should be a big deal to "tackle challenges" not some bumper bowling where everyone gives it a shot and eventually succeeds.

If you lower the death penalties to a meaningless level (subjective measure) then places you could die are no longer a challenge, they are more a time sink that you just keep throwing yourself at until you succeed.