Support option

bairloch

PvP is a big part of IRE games. But, some of us suck at it. Really, really bad.
Has there been any effort put into the development of a support role for players who want to help with the PvP realm, but are terrible at it?
I don't know if there could be scouting, supply runs, even running messages (ships are fastest form of communication, aren't they?).
Is there anything in the works?

Zerva

I agree. I've not much confidence in my PVP but I'm happy to do my part during raids. I'd volunteer to etch runes on people or anything I could with my runelore to help out, as an example of supporting from behind the frontlines. It was also a class exclusive support.

Tecton

bairloch said:

PvP is a big part of IRE games. But, some of us suck at it. Really, really bad.
Has there been any effort put into the development of a support role for players who want to help with the PvP realm, but are terrible at it?
I don't know if there could be scouting, supply runs, even running messages (ships are fastest form of communication, aren't they?).
Is there anything in the works?

Most classes have a support ability or two, nothing is really aimed at being an entirely support-focused class though. Being said, we're doing PvP/combat in Starmourn a little differently, so maybe you'll have better luck being involved/picking things up here if you're so inclined.

bairloch

Yeah, by "support" I wasn't really thinking support abilities, but support... roles. Like my examples above. Truly non-combat support. Like running supplies or messages, some form of scouting, a healer/revive tent off the front lines, quick repair shop or arms supplier in case your weapons break (can weapons break?), you know, camp follower stuff. But not prostitution.... unless you really want it.... Not my thing, but, y'know how RPers can be... :P.

Tecton

bairloch said:

Yeah, by "support" I wasn't really thinking support abilities, but support... roles. Like my examples above. Truly non-combat support. Like running supplies or messages, some form of scouting, a healer/revive tent off the front lines, quick repair shop or arms supplier in case your weapons break (can weapons break?), you know, camp follower stuff. But not prostitution.... unless you really want it.... Not my thing, but, y'know how RPers can be... :P.

You should be free to do a bunch of that stuff, most of it doesn't really need any hardcoded support!

bairloch

No, but is there a need for it in active combat?

Aurelius

For the most part, no. Combat is much too frenetic for that kind of thing. There are no 'camps' because unlike real armies, people can move around very quickly and can carry anything they need for PvP combat on their person. You can send instant tells to anyone in the game via the commsphere, so no need to carry messages, etc. Character classes are designed to be pretty self-sufficient for PvP.

bairloch

That's what I was afraid you were going to say. I was hoping there would be something different in Starmourn on this front from the other IRE games. It locks some players out of a large amount of content, but, well, it's nothing new. I always find ways to have fun anyway.

Apollo

@bairloch If you haven’t already tried it you may want to check out TextSpaced which is a MUD played in Facebook Messenger. It’s pretty free form so you can do support things for your faction like scouting sectors, mining, crafting ships and weapons or just generally making money on behalf of your faction.

bairloch

Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm pretty excited about Starmourn, all around, and I think I'll stay here. I was just hoping for a little different take on combat.
I didn't expect much different with PvP, but I was hoping ShipvShip would be something a bit more methodical. More like capital ship battles and less starfighter dogfights.

Quean

@bairloch As I understand it, PvP in Starmourn is going to be much more accessible than in other IRE MUDs. I certainly hope so, because I seriously sucked in Achaea, and I really wanted to RP a knight

Plus, even if support roles are not directly designed by the devs, chances are we will figure out ways in which non-combat specialists can help in the actual fight. Again, to use Achaean example: if you can't do anything else, you could always snap fingers in front of people in a faint hope it would trigger their reflexes and mess up the healing order. I'm not saying it was the way to go about teamfights (quite the contrary), I only want to express my trust in the creativity of the community

bairloch

I hope so too. Unfortunately 100+ (game) years into Lusternia, I still haven't found a way to contribute.

Quean

I feel you, in more than one way. In Achaea, I had a very intense time some years ago, when my City was involved in a very tough war. Our defenders were spread too thin, and emotions were running wild in the newsboards. Up to that time, I had been content with playing a Forestal healer, traveler and scholar, but I was so enraged that I changed my class to Magi and decided to take combat training seriously. As a result, I ended up crafting Meteor Arrows for the City troops, as I was unable to master the healing systems required to even stay in combat. I got so frustrated that I quit that character alltogether, even though it was my beloved main. I do hope to go a different path in Starmourn.

Aurelius

> I was unable to master the healing systems required

That's an element, happily, not present in the same way in Starmourn. You mostly can't cure stuff manually (or by trigger). It's handled by your wetwiring system.

Malash

Aurelius said:

> I was unable to master the healing systems required

That's an element, happily, not present in the same way in Starmourn. You mostly can't cure stuff manually (or by trigger). It's handled by your wetwiring system.

Happy 300th!

Also: looking forward to seeing wetwiring in action.

KevinRoberts

I was wondering about wetwiring myself I mean if you can't cure stuff by trigger or by manually doing it I am guessing you would have to maintane your wetwiring some how to make sure it has enough to be able to help you right?
Just wondering
Kevin Roberts

Aurelius

You won't really need to maintain or provide resources to your wetwiring system while in combat for the most part.

Sairys

Maybe not in direct pvp, but it would be nice within the greater conflict system. There's a feeling of contribution in completing pvp objectives and it'd be nice to be able to get that even if you can't fight.

Like, the idea of a revive tent might work as "field cloning facility", for example. If you're preparing to capture a cosmpiercer you could set one up close by to reduce respawn time. "Supports" could help with construction, delivery, and setup, maybe even other things. 


idk, for me the best ways to help your org always feel like they're a conflict thing, but when you're most around in quiet times and can't pvp it feels like options are limited.

bairloch

That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the tent up above. For large scale stuff, like taking a piercer, I was hoping we non/bad-combats could actually do something active and helpful.
Here's an idea, hospital ship. You revive there after death, but, they are incredibly complicated and need a few people running around flipping switches and feeding bio-proteins into hoppers and stuff to keep up and running.
Ever read B.V. Larson's "Undying Mercenaries" series? They had bio-robotic cloning machines that needed upkeep and operation and had non-combat members of the platoon on hand to maintain and operate them.
That's the kind of thing I was thinking, but, well... Kinda late in the day, I guess.

Malash

bairloch said:

That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the tent up above. For large scale stuff, like taking a piercer, I was hoping we non/bad-combats could actually do something active and helpful.
Here's an idea, hospital ship. You revive there after death, but, they are incredibly complicated and need a few people running around flipping switches and feeding bio-proteins into hoppers and stuff to keep up and running.
Ever read B.V. Larson's "Undying Mercenaries" series? They had bio-robotic cloning machines that needed upkeep and operation and had non-combat members of the platoon on hand to maintain and operate them.
That's the kind of thing I was thinking, but, well... Kinda late in the day, I guess.

I like the idea, but wouldn't that make them prime targets?

Krumpa

I hope something is made for the non-combatants to contribute as long as their still at risk in the overall war/battle. Some of the best times i've ever had in pvp has been working with non-combatants to complete common goals in the heat of battle. In my experience they should be a target of sorts not prime but close to it, something around where if their left unchecked they act as a scaling multiplier to success but if solely focused on will leave important objectives potentially spread thin in an even fight. Tbh its a hard thing to do correctly and i haven't seen it done right often but when its done right things get INTENSE . All kinds of tactics and surprises come into play that can just wow ya at times since people can create strategies and have ways to win other than just brute force (finesse). But its easy to say and hard to correctly implement from what i've seen....

What I don't think should be a thing is a completely separate system for the noncoms to interact with the active time-now war/battle as it just alienates the non-combatants and makes them feel like their work isn't appreciated in the long run. I'm not one to speak for every non-com (and i don't) but i've never seen a game where that kinda system brings anything but a ever-growing divide in the two styles of play. Just like How Quean said he got frustrated making those arrows, no matter how many arrows a person makes only so many can be used by the faction which can make the action of stockpiling them feel irrelevant in the short term which is unenjoyable in the long term. Give them a way to stockpile something that gives a lasting direct advantage and whoever has the hardcore non-coms will dominate and get all the best people which shuts out the new combatants, weaker factions, and even the new non-coms since their impact with be worthless the longer the game goes on.

Anyways... I drank a lot of coffee and ate a lot of fish so this is probably all over the place, nonetheless i do hope something is made to make non-combatants have a role at some point that isn't at the bottom of the pile.

bairloch

Malash said:

bairloch said:

That's what I was thinking when I mentioned the tent up above. For large scale stuff, like taking a piercer, I was hoping we non/bad-combats could actually do something active and helpful.
Here's an idea, hospital ship. You revive there after death, but, they are incredibly complicated and need a few people running around flipping switches and feeding bio-proteins into hoppers and stuff to keep up and running.
Ever read B.V. Larson's "Undying Mercenaries" series? They had bio-robotic cloning machines that needed upkeep and operation and had non-combat members of the platoon on hand to maintain and operate them.
That's the kind of thing I was thinking, but, well... Kinda late in the day, I guess.

I like the idea, but wouldn't that make them prime targets?

Of course! Never said it was without risk. In the books, they tried to be sneaky or well fortified with their placement.
Didn't always work, of course.
And when you can just keep cloning your people. the machine becomes much more valuable than they are. So that has to be factored in as well.

Sairys

How prime a target something like that would be seems really relative to how much the other side can afford to divert their attention. Doesn't really matter if they manage to knock it out if doing so costs them the objective.


Either way, for me, I just want to feel like I'm meaningfully contributing to my org. Being interwoven with PVP would be nice but not absolutely necessary as long as the output is meaningful and impactful. Something that you can point out and be like "yeah, I did the thing and that was good for my org"

Aurelius

Frankly, the ways to really help your Org are not that many at launch. Cosmpiercers are mostly it for now. More will come later, of course.

bairloch

Hope springs eternal.