Community Hype (Tell Me What You Want)

Nykara

Hi! So, to ensure that I'm not living in an echo chamber of some kind: I encourage everyone to respond to this. Are we interested in combat now? It's been going pretty hard as of late, it feels like, compared to what was happening in the last six months. Beyond that, a lot of people have expressed to me they would be interested in PvP if we had some PvP updates and a strong balance pass. This means more conflict mechanics that feel like they have actual meaning, and class balance (which we all know is on a tight hairline between group and solo!)... So talk to me here. Vote for what you think most accurately represents your interests.

To @Garryn, @Ilyos etc I say- please make sure to tally all the pvp-related options together! Thank you. 

Kirin

B.E.A.S.T. is in the most need of balance. Please fix ASAP.

Thanks for starting this thread. I think a general bug/ classlead month is required. Among the things which need to be looked at

1) B.E.A.S.T issues
2) Ship modding
3) Modding in general to enhance functionality
4) Economy related changes (balancing of commodities, specializations

Slander

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

I'm obviously not a PvP person (Bartle test says E73/S73/A53/K0) so I've got no personal interest on that side of things, though I recognize a healthy PvP scene helps make a healthy game. That being said, I'd log in more if I felt like I had (mechanical) reasons to/things to do but right now I really don't. I don't think we need a higher level cap (at least, not one that gives more stats points or anything like that) but I feel like there's a distinct lack of 'endgame' engagement for PvE. I'll admit I don't have good suggestions for what it should be right now, but I'd really like it if I had something to work towards that isn't PvP or ship-based.

Steve

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

Seconding Slander's comments. I'm getting into PVP in the near future, but I don't anticipate it being a core part of my game experience and would rather see efforts go into fully realizing the PVE experience, both on the ground and in space. I do recognize that PVP needs love, though, and would happily support such an endeavor. Class balance, class functionality, props and cover, excuses to fight in PVP -- those would help the game a good deal.

If I had to vote for one of the PVP options, I would say that BEAST needs attention the most urgently. I don't know first-hand but from staying informed.

edit: emphasis added to reflect that I think more group fighting opportunities would help a lot, per Azlyn's comment

Grek

B.E.A.S.T. is in the most need of balance. Please fix ASAP.

Hilariously biased poll is biased, but even that shouldn't get people to discount the fact that BEAST is in need of love.

Azlyn

I would come back and play Starmourn/would really like if I had more reasons (mechanical and RP) to PvP.

I can hear the collective cry of BEASTs everywhere proclaiming the unfairness of life and the universe itself, and I sympathize, the class needs some help. But I really hope that those players can concede that the whole PVP scene in Starmourn needs more attention from an opportunity standpoint. In most recent activity, all I've seen are spars and an occasional weird, short-lived, meaningless scuffle. So while 1v1 is currently the dominant activity, I can see why BEASTs are upset when they are less viable, but I believe the class still has unique utility and capability to meaningfully contribute in group PVP. I'd like to advocate foremost for fixing and creating group PVP opportunities that will make BEAST just as relevant, and which will be more inclusive to the community as a whole, especially those who want to casually PVP and don't aspire to be some duel champion. Class updates are needed, but I think the bigger picture needs work, both in providing meaning and opportunities to PVP.

Sammy

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

I'm writing this with the caveat that my vote is technically for "PvP is not important for me, however, I would not want to see it thrown under the bus and neglected for those that do care, because there's a fair amount of you that do." But I don't have any suggestions for how to work that because that's not my scene.

That being said, I'm in agreement for "Endgame" PvE, I'm the type of person that kind of needs a goal to work towards, even if slowly, as soon as I hit 75, I'll lose my current goal and probably will disappear. Removing that cap before I hit that will not make me want to grind more, and will in fact probably make me want to less because suddenly the road now has no end.
The reasons I come in is to see things change, to see things evolve over time, this will definitely become more of a thing that happens once the game has gone gold because changing the fundamental underlying dynamics of the universe shouldn't be done until the ribbon is cut and people have a chance to experience things before the changes start. I'd like to see large scale constructions built by the developers, factions or even individual dynasties blossom out over time, taking months or even upwards of a year in realtime and huge lots of resources and labour marks to be fully realised. I enjoyed the fact that new dikamazi changed after a while, with the hook that things can change again in the future if a storyteller feels up to writing the plot, and a player uncovers the hook for it. It's things like that that keep me coming back. Raw amassment of power can only yield so much enjoyment, after all.

Now with that out of the way I might as well say that your PvP is also very important and reasons to fight are also important. And at the moment the only solution on the table is just make more and differently flavoured types of control point. It probably isn't enough. I'd like to see more reasons to fight in the universe than just raw combat, I'd love to see sports come up, both clean and bloody, I'd like to see people betting on sports and fights, You could generate teams and simulate whole rosters for tipping.

Gods that was long, sorry about that. BEAST probably needs a balance pass seeing the folks wanting a change. I cannot give exacts though, I only enjoy classes for their utilities and roleplay value.

eel

I would come back and play Starmourn/would really like if I had more reasons (mechanical and RP) to PvP.

I'm a bit split between what I chose and the last option to see updates in a different area, because I'm not really invested or interested in PvP, but my disinterest ultimately stems from not really having many PvP activities I find engaging currently. Cosmpiercers and the addition of the Conflict announcement channel are definitely a step in the right direction, but as someone who will participate only in group PvP, it doesn't feel like there is much variety or reason to right now.

Cubey

This poll feels really manipulative. All options sans the last one imply that I need PvP changes in game and I want them now, while the last one implies I don't care about PvP at all and I'm a filthy PvE-only carebear who needs to explain themselves.

In other words, not only does it encourage peeps to pick any option BUT the last one, it assumes that if I do that - which I probably will if I have any opinion on PvP or game balance at all, then I treat PvP as the game's #1 priority and the devs should see it that way too: see how much interest there is in PvP and therefore they should make it their #1 priority as well. So yeah, either manipulative, or really fails at its stated goal of proving you're not in an echo chamber.

Starmourn needs meaningful on-foot (non-ship) PvP. BEASTs need a PvP buff. Engineers need a PvP nerf. None of that is why I stopped playing though. I might return if there is more meaningful PvE content - new planets or an expansion of the main story quest.

Indi

Do a strong bugfix pass this month on all the class things! (outside of classleads)

BIt hard to vote when I agree with so many of the options.
Right now, and for the first time since game opening, pvp is the part I am most interested in.

But in the end I voted for the bugfix pass before going into classleads, because there are abilities out there (many in BEAST class) that are too broken to be able to put classlead input into.

This means that classleads will get used for bugfixes rather than balancing, and at the end of them people will test the skills, say "Oh, I get it now... but it's too weak/strong or the concept just isn't viable" 
And be waiting for the next classlead round immediately.

Prime example: mwp missiles never hits if you fire a new lot off before the first lot strike. It's not possible (beyond theorycrafting) to know if the skill would be useful, without trying it out in real group pvp. Classleads will be wasted if stuff like that can't be balanced in the classleads, and the abilities need to actually work in order for meaningful feedback via classleads.

Nykara

Do a strong bugfix pass this month on all the class things! (outside of classleads)

Cubey said:

This poll feels really manipulative. All options sans the last one imply that I need PvP changes in game and I want them now, while the last one implies I don't care about PvP at all and I'm a filthy PvE-only carebear who needs to explain themselves.

I appreciate the feedback; it was not intended to be manipulative, but I didn't really know of another way to present the options. The goal is not to encourage the devs to make PvP their only goal forever; only make a point of what the community feels like would be best to work on next in the same vein as the poll before that led to the economy changes. The economy got worked on and while it's not perfect, it's certainly had the work done on it, and I hope we can move forward to working on something else. Thank you for stating your opinion!

eta: I also was listing those opinions which I had heard in varying expressions and was attempting to give them all a voice.

Flipilaria

Do a strong bugfix pass this month on all the class things! (outside of classleads)

Buff Engineer pls.

Sairys

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

Nykara said:

Cubey said:

This poll feels really manipulative. All options sans the last one imply that I need PvP changes in game and I want them now, while the last one implies I don't care about PvP at all and I'm a filthy PvE-only carebear who needs to explain themselves.

I appreciate the feedback; it was not intended to be manipulative, but I didn't really know of another way to present the options. The goal is not to encourage the devs to make PvP their only goal forever; only make a point of what the community feels like would be best to work on next in the same vein as the poll before that led to the economy changes. The economy got worked on and while it's not perfect, it's certainly had the work done on it, and I hope we can move forward to working on something else. Thank you for stating your opinion!

eta: I also was listing those opinions which I had heard in varying expressions and was attempting to give them all a voice.

When your poll is asking more than one question in one radio button list it's an ineffective poll and the data is basically junk.

Within the options provided you've asked at least four questions.

• Did you stop playing because of PVP? 
• If you stopped playing because of PVP was it because of balance issues or because of lack of reasons to PVP?
• Which of the classes is most in need of PVP balancing right now? 
• Do you want updates anywhere else in the game?

The poll, for example, doesn't allow me to vote for an option that covers that I really stopped playing because the early stage PVE content was just an incredibly draining experience. That's lead to me opting out well before caring about the state of PVP.

Zhulkarn

B.E.A.S.T. is in the most need of balance. Please fix ASAP.

First of all, games like Starmourn provides mechanics such that the pinnacle of PvE becomes PvP. Because all skills right now except insta-kills work on mobs. But I will get back to potential PvE improvements I would like shortly. We have to regain people who wish to do PvE content in their playtimes and have fun. 

I can call myself a RP-PvP player though over the years that composition shifted more weightily towards RP from the earlier dominant PvP side. I voted BEAST not merely out of PvP balance concerns but also I do wish for BEAST players to get into the mood of that they are badass operators of those high-tech suits. Like in Fallout games or in mech games when you get into those suits you would want your presence in the battlefield known. You are imposing, guns and missiles whirring everywhere...no one can ignore you. You want to keep someone under your shield while both being able to fight with other weapons? Maybe slam that shield on the ground and turn it into a cover? Keep people in formation that will make your two allies flank enemies and do more damage to your opponents or maybe create a shieldwall formation with fellow BEASTs for ultimate protection?  Meanwhile all the gadgets raining bullets and death? You should be able to do so. That is what you want for BEAST. They should command the attention in the field. They are the vanguard of any operation.

Now setting BEAST aside. Some PvE improvements would be and some of them are not easy things to do but possibly can be done over the years:

- Mobs using more varied attack types such as mental, electric etc. to broaden the array of damage types.
- Mobs that can resist certain damage types. 
- Increasing PvEs relation with modding skillsets such that they will work better against mobs then players.
- Dynamic quests, some quests with arcs, perhaps mini stories that you can start on random with a distress call or while exploring. Their strong suit should be story, choices and character investment.  Mark reward can be secondary or even tertiary in importance there. 
- Boss mobs with varying difficulties. Though as I stated in the start of the post, the pinnacle of PvE that can be achieved will be a mob that can fight similar to a player. 
- Mobs with different behavioral patterns. Such as mobs that can summon mobs, mobs which will do revenge attacks if they are damaged beyond a threshold, mobs that can target your weakest resistance, mobs that will use damage over time attacks or even assassin mobs that can crit on you bypassing your resistances if certain conditions are met. These are just some vague examples.
- Reducing the charge attack mobs on lower levels can be a positive experience for starters but some might argue sooner people learn to interrupt it is the better. 
- Street stories. (as an example of a dynamic quest) Basically you walk through Undercity of Litharge and you see a civilian getting surrounded by some muggers, depending on your certain stats and dialogue choices you get to resolve the situation in several different ways. You stumble upon things just for walking around and not always you get some reward to farm. Just some little surprise. Enhances the mood of your faction and perhaps gets you some on-the-fly PvE content.

RocketCat

I would come back and play Starmourn/would really like if PvP got some significant balance updates.

I'd vote for bugfixes but apparently voted this instead.

Not here to critique Nyk's survey methodology.

I'm not concerned much with server pop, since I think we will have an influx of players when the game is "launched", i.e. is no longer BETA.

The biggest part of pulling a game out of beta is boring stuff. Bugs. Polish. Some class abilities, mostly in BEAST, are broken.

I'm a fan of the new and shiney... but MUDs have long lifespans. Plenty of time for the new and shiney in the future.

Kestrel

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

I play when there's RP.

I stop playing when the RP sucks.

I made an alt recently and had some fun but at the end of the day if I'm emoting at people and just getting presets or one-liner says in return, it doesn't feel like a sound investment of my time. I MUD for story, and if I need a brainless grind there are better (graphical) games which will always provide a superior experience, simply by nature. There is only one thing MUDs do better than graphical games, and that's providing a literary, story-driven experience for people who really enjoy writing. If a MUD can't provide that then there is absolutely nothing it could ever provide to compete with any number of other uses of my time.

So I do not need any kind of mechanical incentive to play, I need a more active, RP-driven community.

Aside from that one of the things that tends to sour my experience with IRE MUDs is the credit system. Promos feel very money-grubby to me and despite being happy to invest in a game I love, when I see constant reminders of "give us $$$", more and more, it has the absolute opposite effect on my desire to spend.

I threw some cash at the August promo and felt pretty annoyed by what seemed like very poor value for money. Buyer's remorse makes me feel like I should avoid playing a game which inspires it.

Not something I imagine the Starmourn team can do anything about, but I wish Matt Mihaly and whoever else is in charge of IRE these days would consider revisiting their (frankly, awful) business model. 

Sairys

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

RocketCat said:

I'm not concerned much with server pop, since I think we will have an influx of players when the game is "launched", i.e. is no longer BETA.

The biggest part of pulling a game out of beta is boring stuff. Bugs. Polish. Some class abilities, mostly in BEAST, are broken.

I'm a fan of the new and shiney... but MUDs have long lifespans. Plenty of time for the new and shiney in the future.

eh disagree, player retention is always an issue for games and your list of stuff to go to "launch" really doesn't cover the things I've seen in convos where people are talking about the, fixable, reasons for why they quit / never picked up SM in the first place. 


Also, realistically, the game is launched. Betas are for testing, you have the expectation that your progression will be wiped at the end of them (as well as regularly throughout).

Sairys

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

Kestrel said:

if I need a brainless grind there are better (graphical) games which will always provide a superior experience, simply by nature.

Yeah, what draws me to MUDs these days is the stuff that graphical games really can't or just wouldn't do, as well as the opportunity to just log on and potentially roleplay with people.

Is likely why low pop is always a concern for me. I've seen just how difficult RP stuff becomes when there aren't enough people to actually engage with.

Nykara

Do a strong bugfix pass this month on all the class things! (outside of classleads)

Sairys said:

Kestrel said:

if I need a brainless grind there are better (graphical) games which will always provide a superior experience, simply by nature.

Yeah, what draws me to MUDs these days is the stuff that graphical games really can't or just wouldn't do, as well as the opportunity to just log on and potentially roleplay with people.

Is likely why low pop is always a concern for me. I've seen just how difficult RP stuff becomes when there aren't enough people to actually engage with.

A low-pop community of dedicated roleplayers can be an incredible experience. My LARP, for example (and I draw the comparison because LARPs and MUDs are VERY similar) is currently low-pop but they are all dedicated roleplayers and every other Saturday we have an incredible game. On the other hand, a lot of people are playing video games to play video games, and aren't strong RPers. Luckily, Starmourn is an environment that can really encourage people to learn and grow about RP in general. (Thanks @Eukelade )

Garryn

Indi said:

But in the end I voted for the bugfix pass before going into classleads, because there are abilities out there (many in BEAST class) that are too broken to be able to put classlead input into.

Hm. Went through reported bugs for BEAST, seems all we have is a bunch of Missiles reports and one semi-obscure Focusfire interaction (not counting minor issues like a wrong message in GMCP). Both will be fixed shortly, if there's anything else in the class that does not work properly, please report it as well, thanks!

Sairys

PvP isn't very important to me at all and I would like to see updates in a different area. (Please explain)

Nykara said:

Sairys said:

Kestrel said:

if I need a brainless grind there are better (graphical) games which will always provide a superior experience, simply by nature.

Yeah, what draws me to MUDs these days is the stuff that graphical games really can't or just wouldn't do, as well as the opportunity to just log on and potentially roleplay with people.

Is likely why low pop is always a concern for me. I've seen just how difficult RP stuff becomes when there aren't enough people to actually engage with.

A low-pop community of dedicated roleplayers can be an incredible experience. My LARP, for example (and I draw the comparison because LARPs and MUDs are VERY similar) is currently low-pop but they are all dedicated roleplayers and every other Saturday we have an incredible game. On the other hand, a lot of people are playing video games to play video games, and aren't strong RPers. Luckily, Starmourn is an environment that can really encourage people to learn and grow about RP in general. (Thanks @Eukelade )

Sure but you note the LARP group is meeting only every other Saturday which is also where LARPs and MUDs are quite separate experiences.
MUDs are always on, one of the places they uniquely shine is that ability to just log on and roleplay whenever you like, you don't need to wait for the weekend or longer to be able to have fun with the rp you're exploring.

It's also not like high and low population communities are mutually exclusive, it's just that higher population means more opportunities for smaller tightly-knit groups to go off an explore more niche rp threads.

Nykara

Do a strong bugfix pass this month on all the class things! (outside of classleads)

Sairys said:

Nykara said:

Sairys said:

Kestrel said:

if I need a brainless grind there are better (graphical) games which will always provide a superior experience, simply by nature.

Yeah, what draws me to MUDs these days is the stuff that graphical games really can't or just wouldn't do, as well as the opportunity to just log on and potentially roleplay with people.

Is likely why low pop is always a concern for me. I've seen just how difficult RP stuff becomes when there aren't enough people to actually engage with.

A low-pop community of dedicated roleplayers can be an incredible experience. My LARP, for example (and I draw the comparison because LARPs and MUDs are VERY similar) is currently low-pop but they are all dedicated roleplayers and every other Saturday we have an incredible game. On the other hand, a lot of people are playing video games to play video games, and aren't strong RPers. Luckily, Starmourn is an environment that can really encourage people to learn and grow about RP in general. (Thanks @Eukelade )

Sure but you note the LARP group is meeting only every other Saturday which is also where LARPs and MUDs are quite separate experiences.
MUDs are always on, one of the places they uniquely shine is that ability to just log on and roleplay whenever you like, you don't need to wait for the weekend or longer to be able to have fun with the rp you're exploring.

It's also not like high and low population communities are mutually exclusive, it's just that higher population means more opportunities for smaller tightly-knit groups to go off an explore more niche rp threads.

Well... actually... we have a persistent online presence where people can log in and roleplay in real-time, and it's considered as valid and part of the story as anything that happens at LARP. Less regular pop than Starmourn, but still plenty of RP that goes on. It can work as long as people want it to.